[0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[GrumpyJoe]

you can make recipe for coils that use angels wired copper as input for example (i'm not sure, if i did put that one in, but i have that option)

It makes sense that this is a thing, and yes, its working.
Very good idea which I haven't noticed that way.

@Bluetemplar
I'm not saying it isn't possible, but it's not only increasing complexity with science-only intermediates, but also making it harder.
You need gold for modules, but you don't need to go for modules, so I don't know where this is coming from?
Red to blue is already a huge jump in complexity, doesn't need to add gold. Imho!

I know some people like etrxa rocks thrown in their way. I just like to have some relaxing time after work. I'm playing Rimworld on peaceful, and biters in Factorio are set to be relatively calm

Thanks for the suggestion, I can say I have tried it. It's not for me tho.

This turned into a discussion about other mods, which I already said.

Let's talk about Bob in 0.17 again

[gmilliken83]

With 0.17 around the corner, and the planned science changes, it got me thinking about science packs in bob mods, how the science changes in .17 might affect them, and since i had nothing better to do this morning i decided to write a post about it.

I like your thoughts

In the same spirit, not asking for a change, just my thought on this. Thinking about this alot recently, since i added Madclown´s Science as well
Now i have absolutely no idea how a "Bob´s only" map works, since i always play with Angel´s combined, so I might be waaay off here.

What i never liked in logistics is making cobalt-steel, since it actually needs more steel than cobalt.
With Angels its 2 steel to 1 cobalt and steel is just more iron ,which are both already used in every belt before blue ones. With the grey ones enabled, its 4 tiers of belts to make, which is ok, but a bit redundant because grey and yellow both use iron
I´d like to get rid of either the inserter or the belt.
I´d favor the inserter, since its more complex with its use of circuits and because yellow inserter doesn´t need burner ones, so it should be less of the same (iron)

In just Bob's, steel is even easier and cheaper to make than vanilla, just 2 iron plates and 7 seconds smelting time. I think this would be a balance change to propose on Angel's forum.

Just started a test map and played up to green, was curious what to expect.
take the ingredients with a grain of salt, as its just the basic reciepes, specially wood that i used for resin for cables.

But white circuits in military?
Gold in blue science? (should read 10, as i forgot to break down the one next to nitrogen) where silver is only later in production science

At least with Angel´s thats a no-go for me, as a reliable income in gold (direct sorting with crystals) comes at the same time as silver. Might be ok with seablock tho, cos getting ore is all the same.
I guess you´ll get used to it, but this is not really an alternative for me and still a totally differnt thing than talking about bobs tech and 0.17 rework

Thats SCTbyMexmer

msp.png

Yeah, in just Bob's all you have to do to get gold is mine and refine it.

[GrumpyJoe]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, I was about to start a Bob map, without Angel's, just to find out

[bobingabout]

Yeah, in just Bob's all you have to do to get gold is mine and refine it.

You do however need to use Chlorine in a chemical furnace though, it's not just a pure furnace recipe, but it's as simple as it can be without being just a furnace recipe.

[TRUEpicness]

You could make the mk1 assembler produce all tier 1 items(basic circuit board iron gears mk1 drills etc) and then the mk2 assembly machine which will do all tier 2 and 1 items plus mk3 assembly machine and so on

Which means manually sorting out what can be crafted in where by introducing a lot of crafting categories, then which ones do you allow the player to build by hand?

The player should only be allowed to handcraft buildings, poles, train stuff etc, but intermediate products and unplaceable items like modules can only be produced in the appropriate assembler.
It would give a good sense of accomplishment when you start making the next tier assembler.

[mexmer]

You could make the mk1 assembler produce all tier 1 items(basic circuit board iron gears mk1 drills etc) and then the mk2 assembly machine which will do all tier 2 and 1 items plus mk3 assembly machine and so on

Which means manually sorting out what can be crafted in where by introducing a lot of crafting categories, then which ones do you allow the player to build by hand?

The player should only be allowed to handcraft buildings, poles, train stuff etc, but intermediate products and unplaceable items like modules can only be produced in the appropriate assembler.
It would give a good sense of accomplishment when you start making the next tier assembler.

this is kinda reverse logic, according to your logic, player is not able to handcraft simple items (intermediates), yet is able to handcraft complex item (machinery), there no feeling of accomplisment from this, but rather frustration, because you need to wait until machine crafts intermediate to be able to craft final product by hand ...

[gmilliken83]

You could make the mk1 assembler produce all tier 1 items(basic circuit board iron gears mk1 drills etc) and then the mk2 assembly machine which will do all tier 2 and 1 items plus mk3 assembly machine and so on

Which means manually sorting out what can be crafted in where by introducing a lot of crafting categories, then which ones do you allow the player to build by hand?

The player should only be allowed to handcraft buildings, poles, train stuff etc, but intermediate products and unplaceable items like modules can only be produced in the appropriate assembler.
It would give a good sense of accomplishment when you start making the next tier assembler.

this is kinda reverse logic, according to your logic, player is not able to handcraft simple items (intermediates), yet is able to handcraft complex item (machinery), there no feeling of accomplisment from this, but rather frustration, because you need to wait until machine crafts intermediate to be able to craft final product by hand ...

Maybe he works for IKEA. It would make sense in that context

[TRUEpicness]

I do see what you mean, but factorio is about automating things and the intermediate stuff might be somewhere in the base anyway ready to be picked up.
And no I don't work for IKEA lol .

[Light]

Did you buff the biters by any chance?

In 0.16 I could run past no issue, but now the worms not only have remarkable range, but both them and the biters/spitters completely crush me in just a couple hits with powered armour Mk2. (The big variants)

I'm not complaining, this is exactly the threat they needed to be. Base clearing will finally be something to prepare in advance instead of a constant slaughtering of hundreds of nests.

[bobingabout]

Did you buff the biters by any chance?

In 0.16 I could run past no issue, but now the worms not only have remarkable range, but both them and the biters/spitters completely crush me in just a couple hits with powered armour Mk2. (The big variants)

I'm not complaining, this is exactly the threat they needed to be. Base clearing will finally be something to prepare in advance instead of a constant slaughtering of hundreds of nests.

not intentionally.
it is possible they're spitting something that the base game armour no longer resists.

[Light]

Did you buff the biters by any chance?

In 0.16 I could run past no issue, but now the worms not only have remarkable range, but both them and the biters/spitters completely crush me in just a couple hits with powered armour Mk2. (The big variants)

I'm not complaining, this is exactly the threat they needed to be. Base clearing will finally be something to prepare in advance instead of a constant slaughtering of hundreds of nests.

not intentionally.
it is possible they're spitting something that the base game armour no longer resists.

I believe I now know the reason for this.

The spit on the ground has a DPS to it like fire does, which results in spitter and worm projectiles being remarkably deadly if you're caught in it. If the DPS is based on their element or a set rate isn't known to me, but they still drop you quickly in Mk5 armour with 10k shield. This leads me to believe the spit actually stacks, which with the slower walking speed almost ensures a rapid death.

It's still nice to see the spitters and worms being a major threat, but that DPS value clearly needs some tweaking, as they also overwhelm defenses with no effort.

[orzelek]

Did you buff the biters by any chance?

In 0.16 I could run past no issue, but now the worms not only have remarkable range, but both them and the biters/spitters completely crush me in just a couple hits with powered armour Mk2. (The big variants)

I'm not complaining, this is exactly the threat they needed to be. Base clearing will finally be something to prepare in advance instead of a constant slaughtering of hundreds of nests.

not intentionally.
it is possible they're spitting something that the base game armour no longer resists.

I believe I now know the reason for this.

The spit on the ground has a DPS to it like fire does, which results in spitter and worm projectiles being remarkably deadly if you're caught in it. If the DPS is based on their element or a set rate isn't known to me, but they still drop you quickly in Mk5 armour with 10k shield. This leads me to believe the spit actually stacks, which with the slower walking speed almost ensures a rapid death.

It's still nice to see the spitters and worms being a major threat, but that DPS value clearly needs some tweaking, as they also overwhelm defenses with no effort.

I would say we are on equal ground now
Player has fire with it's over the top damage and biters received acid version of it. So we are on receiving end of stick right now.

[Recon777]

Bob, did you end up changing the belt speed from the new 0.17 vanilla settings to something else? I remember you were talking about slowing them down. Hoping you decided against doing that.

[Zyrconia]

My vote is on having an option to limit the number of ingredients in an assembler.

The default could be on "off", so unlimited ingredients. Of course, someone needs to playtest this...

[bobingabout]

Bob, did you end up changing the belt speed from the new 0.17 vanilla settings to something else? I remember you were talking about slowing them down. Hoping you decided against doing that.

if you play without the overhaul, no. it goes up in steps of 15 topping out at 75.
if you turn on the overhaul you get the extra tier of belts, you can also manually set the "speed per tier", it defaults to 12.5 per tier topping out at the same 75, but you can change this in mod settings, I let you set up to 30, which is double base game.

My vote is on having an option to limit the number of ingredients in an assembler.

The default could be on "off", so unlimited ingredients. Of course, someone needs to playtest this...

I was going to do this, but I forgot. I had also removed all the limits before this was first suggested to me, so I have no idea what the limits used to be unless I compare against 0.16. but it can be done.

[Zyrconia]

I was going to do this, but I forgot. I had also removed all the limits before this was first suggested to me, so I have no idea what the limits used to be unless I compare against 0.16. but it can be done.

Well, doing diffs between random versions is something developers do all the time .

[bobingabout]

I was going to do this, but I forgot. I had also removed all the limits before this was first suggested to me, so I have no idea what the limits used to be unless I compare against 0.16. but it can be done.

Well, doing diffs between random versions is something developers do all the time .

the only problem with that is all the other changes too.

it would be easy enough, but my main question is, where do I put the setting? it would cover multiple mods.
In this case, the most appropriate place would probably be in the assembly mod. it's the one that adds more tiers to other machines, which if there's only one version you wouldn't normally want a limit on them anyway.

[Zyrconia]

I was going to do this, but I forgot. I had also removed all the limits before this was first suggested to me, so I have no idea what the limits used to be unless I compare against 0.16. but it can be done.

Well, doing diffs between random versions is something developers do all the time .

the only problem with that is all the other changes too.

it would be easy enough, but my main question is, where do I put the setting? it would cover multiple mods.
In this case, the most appropriate place would probably be in the assembly mod. it's the one that adds more tiers to other machines, which if there's only one version you wouldn't normally want a limit on them anyway.

Sounds about right to me. With vanilla and only 3 tiers of assembler, having/not having a limit is not a big deal. I hate upgrading stuff I already built so I end up automating tier 2 assemblers in the first 30 minutes anyway. With 0.17 it will be a bit harder, but not by much.

With your mods, these upgrades come slower and I like having the reward of not having to hand craft stuff anymore.

[Therenas]

This morning I thought of a feature that would be great for bobsinserters imo. Hopefully this is the right place to post it. After seeing the 0.17.1 patch, you can apparently create your own toolbar actions as a mod. Didn't try that out, so hopefully I understood it correctly.
Now my idea would be that you can create presets for bobsinserter configurations, for example a long inserter, or a 90 degree inserter that drops off items on the close side of the belt. You would create those as the user, whichever ones you need frequently, and place them in your toolbelt shortcuts. When they are activated (mouseclick or keyboard shortcut), the inserter configuration is set to the one you created, so all the inserters placed after that would follow the saved rules. It's the same as changing it manually before placing new inserters, just much more convenient. I would find this useful, because I don't use any crazy angles or such, mainly the same few ones, and it would save me a lot of time clicking around in the GUI in the top left.

Now I know you are very busy at the moment, but if you find yourself wondering what to improve, consider that idea. Thanks!

[GrumpyJoe]

I think you should remove the Fast Inserter research (50 AutomationScience Packs)

They are also included in Logistics 3 and they use cobalt. While cobalt is obtainable with transport science, ECBs are way out of reach at the point where you research the inserters as standalone tec and you dont really need them that early

fastinserter.png (64.09 KiB) Viewed 5912 times