About pollution and green mods

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Tairon96
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About pollution and green mods

Post by Tairon96 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:16 am

I have just started to reorganize my base :
* Dismantled all machines
* Picked up all belts
* etc

I have only left the outer perimeter defence, the solar arrays, the accumulator arrays and the robo ports untouched.

I tried to rebuild ( more organized :mrgreen: ) the factory. But although I have not started it, the pollution level did not drop to zero ... I had sealed the ground with concrete slabs. :roll:

I thought some kind of blowing wind would help to disperse the pollution. But after reading the wiki, I found out, there is only a trickle down from polluted chunks to less polluted chunks.

The next step was to suck the inevitable pollution by using some green mods ( e.g. Bio Industry, Air Filters, ... ).

Sadly this works only to a limited degree : No wind means I would have to use green equipment in every chunk.

But now I have studied the wiki a bit more ...
wiki wrote: The evolution factor is not increased by the spreading/absorbed pollution, but by the pollution produced by all the player's machinery at every tick. This means that no matter how hard the player tries to contain the pollution, enemies will still evolve at the same rate. They just won't attack the player as frequently.
Does this mean, all efforts to use green equipment is nonsense? I don't care how often the natives are attacking. I don't want them to evolve too quickly. But separate pollution cleaners do not reduce the produced pollution. They only clean up the mess afterwards.
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Bauer
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Re: About pollution and green mods

Post by Bauer » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:23 am

In vanilla, I have never found a use for a "green" approach. Reducing the number of attacks by producing less pollution would just cost less energy. Firstly, because green modules not only reduce the pollution but also the energy consumption; and secondly, because your laser turrets will be less busy. However, energy is so cheep that I never bothered.

However, I'm currently playing Seablock pack (Seablock + Bob + Angel + SpaceX) (which is admittedly crazy). Here, energy production is some hassle...

Keep in mind, Factorio is a sandbox game. Set your own goals! Why not try to make a pollution free base and live in peace with the critters.

JimBarracus
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Re: About pollution and green mods

Post by JimBarracus » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:21 am

Tairon96 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:16 am
Does this mean, all efforts to use green equipment is nonsense? I don't care how often the natives are attacking. I don't want them to evolve too quickly. But separate pollution cleaners do not reduce the produced pollution. They only clean up the mess afterwards.
Emitting less pollution is the key the reduce evolution
Since the complete species evolves it does not matter if the pollution hits the nests or not.
Cutting emissions in half does the same with the evolution speed.

Anyway, you cant undo evolution.

Tairon96
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Re: About pollution and green mods

Post by Tairon96 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:42 am

I don't plan to undo the evolution. I just think it is crazy the evolution progresses by the produced pollution although I clean up the pollution with the help of Bio Industry. I have reduced as much as possible pollution by using Bob's modules. But there is still a little bit pollution left. In the case of the evolution factor, it doesn't matter if I let the pollution swap out of my factory complex or suck the very last bit of the pollution into the Bio-Garden ("A building that helps reduces the pollution you create").

The way the evolution factor is influenced by the pollution is not logical and concerning Bio Gardens (or Air Filters) it is contra productive : The maintenance of Bio Gardens or Air Filters consumes a bit energy (meaning more pollution by energy production) but the cleaning is not considered at all.
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astroshak
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Re: About pollution and green mods

Post by astroshak » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:11 pm

The purpose of cleaning up Pollution is not to undo evolution; the purpose is to reduce the footprint of your Pollution cloud, which means, reduce the frequency and severity of retaliatory attacks on your factory by the biters.

If you don’t care about biter attacks, because you can handle them without issue, because you’re playing on peaceful or without biters, because you’re playing a mod where you need Alien Ore or Alien Artifacts, or because of some other reason, then you don’t need to clean up the pollution you generate.

If you want to reduce biter attacks, you have one thing to do : make sure that you have no biter bases underneath your cloud. There are two ways of doing this; you can eliminate biter bases in your cloud, or reduce your cloud. Or you can do both. It just depends on what mods you’re using, if any (vanilla, your only option is to kill biter bases).

Since biter evolution is based on created pollution, I’m not sure that cleaning the pollution up would have any impact on evolution at all. REducing the amount generated, by using the Efficiency Modules, that works to slow evolution down, because you’re not generating as much. But you can only clean it up after it has been generated ...

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Re: About pollution and green mods

Post by Tairon96 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:28 pm

Hmmm. "My" problem is sadly not touched by your post :

I am playing with several Mods on a Deathworld. Every tiny bit of pollution that "escapes" speeds up the evolution progress and therefore reducing my time to prepare for the really nasty / angry neighbors.

My goal is to reduce my pollution output to nil ! Than the evolution would only be affected by time, my aggressiveness to clear new areas ... and by me making an mistake and allowing pollution to escape ( *whip* "Yay, gimme more! I have been a bad boy" )

The strange thing is, the natives evolve by "telepathic sensing" my machines are producing and my efforts to catch and clean the pollution spill are not regarded concerning the evolution. The only effect is a smaller and/or less frequent attack group.

My playing style is to be something like a nomad : An insanely difficult and little bit modded version of rampant and Nauvis Plus. It is always a race between the two options : Getting a rocket on a new plain planet more or less without problems into the sky to escape to the next new planet ... or pulling the emergency trigger (N+ via command) before being overrun.
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Zavian
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Re: About pollution and green mods

Post by Zavian » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:12 am

It is worth pointing that that your problem doesn't really exist in vanilla, since in vanilla there is no way to clean up pollution (other than letting trees etc absorb it). The vanilla equivalent is to reduce pollution emitted by using efficiency modules.

astroshak
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Re: About pollution and green mods

Post by astroshak » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:49 am

Tairon96 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:28 pm
Hmmm. "My" problem is sadly not touched by your post :

I am playing with several Mods on a Deathworld. Every tiny bit of pollution that "escapes" speeds up the evolution progress and therefore reducing my time to prepare for the really nasty / angry neighbors.

My goal is to reduce my pollution output to nil ! Than the evolution would only be affected by time, my aggressiveness to clear new areas ... and by me making an mistake and allowing pollution to escape ( *whip* "Yay, gimme more! I have been a bad boy" )

The strange thing is, the natives evolve by "telepathic sensing" my machines are producing and my efforts to catch and clean the pollution spill are not regarded concerning the evolution. The only effect is a smaller and/or less frequent attack group.

My playing style is to be something like a nomad : An insanely difficult and little bit modded version of rampant and Nauvis Plus. It is always a race between the two options : Getting a rocket on a new plain planet more or less without problems into the sky to escape to the next new planet ... or pulling the emergency trigger (N+ via command) before being overrun.
Actually, it was.

Pollution generated, regardless of whether it is cleaned up, counts towards evolution.

The ONLY solution you have is to use Efficiency Modules (or some Pollution-generation-reducing mod module) to reduce the power draw, and thus the pollution, generated. Cleaning the already-generated pollution up ONLY reduces the footprint of your cloud. It has NO impact on evolution.

Efficiency are great for this, because not only do they reduce the pollution generated by the machine, they also reduce the power draw, which means, less pollution generated by your boiler as well.

Tairon96
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Re: About pollution and green mods

Post by Tairon96 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:11 am

Zavian wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:12 am
It is worth pointing that that your problem doesn't really exist in vanilla, since in vanilla there is no way to clean up pollution (other than letting trees etc absorb it). The vanilla equivalent is to reduce pollution emitted by using efficiency modules.
I know this :? In vanilla my playing mode doesn't even exist. But trees in vanilla don't slow down the evolution factor either. And this is my problem. Neither the natural trees nor the technical tree equivalents ( Bio Garden ) have an effect on the evolution.
___
astroshak wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:49 am
Tairon96 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:28 pm
Hmmm. "My" problem is sadly not touched by your post :

[...]
Actually, it was.

Pollution generated, regardless of whether it is cleaned up, counts towards evolution.

The ONLY solution you have is to use Efficiency Modules (or some Pollution-generation-reducing mod module) to reduce the power draw, and thus the pollution, generated. Cleaning the already-generated pollution up ONLY reduces the footprint of your cloud. It has NO impact on evolution.

Efficiency are great for this, because not only do they reduce the pollution generated by the machine, they also reduce the power draw, which means, less pollution generated by your boiler as well.
Next to a few equipment / utility items ( e.g. personal armour, a single stack of C-Bots, a stack of solar panels, ammunition, ..., no science progress ) I bring a stack of Bob's modules to the next planet.

With Bob's "Green Modules" - a combination of efficiency and reduced pollution - there is already very little pollution generated. But sometimes *) it is not enough to slow down the evolution progress and the neighbors arrive with an eviction order before I can think of the escape rocket. Than I start to fiddle around with the parameters for the next planet again - which feels like cheating.
___

Maybe my approach to my problem is wrong and I should ask if a modder knows if there is a way to modify the pollution progress effects other than just changing the parameters.
___

*) don't know exactly, just guessing : 40% of my 16 jumps so far have been a failure
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Koub
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Re: About pollution and green mods

Post by Koub » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:52 am

I think I must be missing something because the answer seems too obvious to me.
But just in case, would this be what you're looking for ?
change pollution impact on evolution factor
[Edit] : You also have the mods option :
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Evolution%20Reduction
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/unhappy_mod
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

Tairon96
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Re: About pollution and green mods

Post by Tairon96 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:03 am

Sorry, but since my English is not the best, it is sometimes hard to explain all the details with understandable words.

I know this parameter ( quite well :D ). This is my personal friend and enemy. But I want to achieve a different way how pollution is measured before this particular parameter is considered in the evolution formula ..

My request for modding help( »»» )
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