pY Raw Ores Discussion

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:42 am

right.. i will run some tests here.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by hallgeirl » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:04 pm

I have some feedback based on the latest update. First off, I LOVE the complexity of your mods. However, with the latest changes to the iron and copper chains, I'm spending most of my time trying to just get enough iron/copper plates to keep my circuits production on a high enough level to just create the machines I need to continue expanding. I feel it brought more tediousness than more challenge, since the amount of copper and iron ore needed to produce the same amount of plates as before now more or less quadrupled when using the processed iron/grade 2 copper smelting. It's possible these recipes did need a nerf, though I hoped not by as much... :)

Anyhow, that's just my thoughts - I know it's your mod, feel free to use the feedback as you see fit (rejecting it or not).

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by boaster » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:20 pm

How about this?
IMG_20190113_160835_203.jpg
IMG_20190113_160835_203.jpg (47.81 KiB) Viewed 1924 times
IMG_20190113_160839_339.jpg
IMG_20190113_160839_339.jpg (40.48 KiB) Viewed 1924 times
IMG_20190113_160841_702.jpg
IMG_20190113_160841_702.jpg (32.97 KiB) Viewed 1924 times

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:39 pm

boaster wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:20 pm
How about this?
how about that?
Image
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by mrbaggins » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:36 pm

Am I missing something?FNEI says I can make this, I have the tech, but the pressure pump still only knows how to make vaccuum

Edit: Had to unlearn the research and re-do it.

/c game.player.force.technologies['coal-processing-1'].researched=false; game.player.force.set_saved_technology_progress('coal-processing-1', 0)

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Dreadlord » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:07 pm

Lorash wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:24 am
Arfarazon wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:43 am
So i sincerely ask to make tin require something lower than exactly 20 steam, 18-19 would make things much less buggy and more convenient
In that case you would simply see idle miners having 17.9-18.9 steam in them.
At least they would more or less operate steadily when given a decent amount of steam instead of idling at 199.9...

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by minno » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:14 pm

Miners use 10 ores worth of fluid at a time. If anything consumes 20 fluid per ore, this mod needs to increase the miner's fluid box size above 200.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by TwentyEighty » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:13 pm

IMO fluid wagons requiring stainless steel is overkill. Trains are fun. Tons of ores with different chains are fun. A bazillion steps required for stainless steel is fun. But getting to the stainless steel level with super long ass pipes and pumps, or thousands and thousands of barrels of syngas, isn't that fun.

BTW Tin with steam works for me, not sure what the difference is. I put 4 boilers to 26 miners and I'm far too lazy to determine the correct amount.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:31 pm

TwentyEighty wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:13 pm
IMO fluid wagons requiring stainless steel is overkill. Trains are fun. Tons of ores with different chains are fun. A bazillion steps required for stainless steel is fun. But getting to the stainless steel level with super long ass pipes and pumps, or thousands and thousands of barrels of syngas, isn't that fun.

BTW Tin with steam works for me, not sure what the difference is. I put 4 boilers to 26 miners and I'm far too lazy to determine the correct amount.
use electric boilers like me

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Therenas » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:03 pm

I feel like the improved yield for later ore processing recipes is way off. With simple smelting, you get 600 copper plates from 6000 ore. Fair enough, that's when you don't do anything, so you don't deserve less pain. But when using the process chain that's one level above that, you can get 1000 copper from 6000 ore. Seems way better, right? Except you now have to use about 280 expensive machines and 100 MW of power or so. No way that is worth saving 4000 raw ore, so I guess what I am saying that the more complex setups lack incentive because they are so expensive. And only ever getting one plate per 10 ore doesn't seem very fun either.
Hope this doesn't seem to harsh, love your mods, they are the best, but it's a bit too frustrating I feel like.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:07 pm

no problem, you can always end the game burning your copper since its abundant in your map.
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:16 pm

Therenas wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:03 pm
I feel like the improved yield for later ore processing recipes is way off. With simple smelting, you get 600 copper plates from 6000 ore. Fair enough, that's when you don't do anything, so you don't deserve less pain. But when using the process chain that's one level above that, you can get 1000 copper from 6000 ore. Seems way better, right? Except you now have to use about 280 expensive machines and 100 MW of power or so. No way that is worth saving 4000 raw ore, so I guess what I am saying that the more complex setups lack incentive because they are so expensive. And only ever getting one plate per 10 ore doesn't seem very fun either.
Hope this doesn't seem to harsh, love your mods, they are the best, but it's a bit too frustrating I feel like.
the deeper you go down the chain usualy the ore/plate gets better

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Arfarazon » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:50 pm

I have some concerns about Iron chain - unslimed iron seems waaay out of place. Dont get me wrong - the chain itself is pretty fine except the final part, why do you smelt unslimed iron into iron plates directly? this part does not make much sense to me tbh.
You still need steel, and the only way to make it other than super inefficient iron plates > steel plates is the molten iron > molten steel > steel plates.

So you are kinda forced to either still use not very efficient processed iron > molten iron > iron plates (which is just t1 i believe) to have capabality to make steel.
Or use the unslimed iron stuff in parallel to molten iron (because you want steel anyway until you can research t4 iron production), basically doubling all the iron production with two different chains, and the processed to molten one will be completely redundant when you research t4 iron processing.

As for me unslimed iron should just be melted into molten iron instead of turned into plates, that way the progression does not break for the whole tiers in the chain, as right now iron chain has pretty inconsistent progression:

t1 - Ore > processed > molten > plates
t2 - Same as t1 because it just unlocks steel and few recipes for graded iron which are unusable at this point.
t3 - Ore > processed > graded iron > iron dust > slime + useless pulp at this point which is burned away > unslimed > plates (with some byproducts than can be refined back to graded iron or iron dust)
OR
t3 - same as t1, because you need steel anyway.
t4 - Ore > processed > graded iron > iron dust > pulp way to high grade etc + slime > unslimed as byproducts

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:34 pm

Arfarazon wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:50 pm
I have some concerns about Iron chain - unslimed iron seems waaay out of place. Dont get me wrong - the chain itself is pretty fine except the final part, why do you smelt unslimed iron into iron plates directly? this part does not make much sense to me tbh.
You still need steel, and the only way to make it other than super inefficient iron plates > steel plates is the molten iron > molten steel > steel plates.

So you are kinda forced to either still use not very efficient processed iron > molten iron > iron plates (which is just t1 i believe) to have capabality to make steel.
Or use the unslimed iron stuff in parallel to molten iron (because you want steel anyway until you can research t4 iron production), basically doubling all the iron production with two different chains, and the processed to molten one will be completely redundant when you research t4 iron processing.

As for me unslimed iron should just be melted into molten iron instead of turned into plates, that way the progression does not break for the whole tiers in the chain, as right now iron chain has pretty inconsistent progression:

t1 - Ore > processed > molten > plates
t2 - Same as t1 because it just unlocks steel and few recipes for graded iron which are unusable at this point.
t3 - Ore > processed > graded iron > iron dust > slime + useless pulp at this point which is burned away > unslimed > plates (with some byproducts than can be refined back to graded iron or iron dust)
OR
t3 - same as t1, because you need steel anyway.
t4 - Ore > processed > graded iron > iron dust > pulp way to high grade etc + slime > unslimed as byproducts
a few releases ago unslimed had a molten recipe i have no idea why py changed it maybe to mirror the way you get some cu in its chain without melting

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Therenas » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:50 am

immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:16 pm
the deeper you go down the chain usualy the ore/plate gets better
Yes it does, and that is great, but I feel the additional effort is not worth it. Having to plonk down 180 machines and using 100MW of power seems worse than plopping down more miners to get the 4000 additional ore and having to expand to new patches more often. So the more complex setups don't provide enough benefit/are to expensive in my opinion. Now you balance the mod the way you feel like it is appropriate, but I feel if the more advanced processes lack incentive, it takes away from the fun.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:21 am

pyanodon wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:07 pm
no problem, you can always end the game burning your copper since its abundant in your map.
I can use copper to make formaldehyde, then make plastics from formaldehyde to support my electronics production - i'm playing with PYHT - this mod takes many copper

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:26 pm

Therenas wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:50 am
immortal_sniper1 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:16 pm
the deeper you go down the chain usualy the ore/plate gets better
Yes it does, and that is great, but I feel the additional effort is not worth it. Having to plonk down 180 machines and using 100MW of power seems worse than plopping down more miners to get the 4000 additional ore and having to expand to new patches more often. So the more complex setups don't provide enough benefit/are to expensive in my opinion. Now you balance the mod the way you feel like it is appropriate, but I feel if the more advanced processes lack incentive, it takes away from the fun.
you can try to use just the steps what require no input and stop thre
but for lead-silver goild all the wasy is much rore rewarding since mining lead is expensive as an example

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by swift15431 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:00 pm

coal processing 1 has disappeared form research list, also pressurized air not option in pressure pumps

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Pridesfall » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:52 pm

swift15431 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:00 pm
coal processing 1 has disappeared form research list, also pressurized air not option in pressure pumps
I have the same problem. When I click on coal processing 2 it shows that coal processing 1 has been researched but I can't find coal processing 1 on the research list. I don't have pressurized air unlocked in the pressure pump either.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:01 pm

This mod have no migration, so if you apply an update on a running game, this can happens.
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