[0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Some mods, made by Bob. Basically streaks every Factroio-area.

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by SuperSandro2000 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:46 am

Recon777 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:33 am
I just learned that pickaxes are going away in 0.17 as an item. Will Bob's Mods still have a set of speed upgrades that will behave like they do currently, with diamonds giving very good speed? Or is there something entirely new planned?

Also, will there be a 0.17 discussion thread soon? There are a lot of changes coming and it'd be great to have a place to talk about them. Unless I'm blind and simply haven't seen it.
Yes. Sadly. Now we need to make a mod that takes materials to upgrade the "pick" instead of the real pick...
I think he just converts them to tech and makes them plain, flat, boring and uninteresting like all the other techs....

He sometimes gives sneak peaks in the Omni discord.

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:32 am

Serenity wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:43 pm
Why does pure water override ground water when you enable it? I think regular ground water would still be useful if you play with very low water. Though I guess it would compete with other liquids for resource generation
It seems the only way to use water pump jacks to get normal water is to enable boring everywhere
there is a legacy option to allow you to get all 3 water types from the water pump entity. (the one used for barrelling)
Recon777 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:33 am
I just learned that pickaxes are going away in 0.17 as an item. Will Bob's Mods still have a set of speed upgrades that will behave like they do currently, with diamonds giving very good speed? Or is there something entirely new planned?

Also, will there be a 0.17 discussion thread soon? There are a lot of changes coming and it'd be great to have a place to talk about them. Unless I'm blind and simply haven't seen it.
Base game replaces the pickaxe with a technology called "Steel pickaxe" or something like that, which increases hand mining speed.
Bob's mining adds several tiers to this research to produce speeds on par with the old diamond pickaxe.
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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by RocketManChronicles » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:55 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:32 am
Base game replaces the pickaxe with a technology called "Steel pickaxe" or something like that, which increases hand mining speed.
Bob's mining adds several tiers to this research to produce speeds on par with the old diamond pickaxe.
I used to go straight for the diamond pickaxe through the gem processing long before ever unlocking some of the others like titanium and tungsten. Will this no longer be possible? As in the new pickaxe techs are linear, where they have a requirement of researching the tech to produce the material (i.e. Titanium processing is needed for the titanium "pickaxe" crafting speed; and then tungsten requires the titanium pickaxe and tungsten processing)? Or can it be non-linear, where a diamond pickaxe mining speed can be researched with gem processing technologies and not requiring tungsten pickaxe mining speed as a pre-requisite?

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by SuperSandro2000 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:52 pm

RocketManChronicles wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:55 pm
I used to go straight for the diamond pickaxe through the gem processing long before ever unlocking some of the others like titanium and tungsten. Will this no longer be possible? As in the new pickaxe techs are linear, where they have a requirement of researching the tech to produce the material (i.e. Titanium processing is needed for the titanium "pickaxe" crafting speed; and then tungsten requires the titanium pickaxe and tungsten processing)? Or can it be non-linear, where a diamond pickaxe mining speed can be researched with gem processing technologies and not requiring tungsten pickaxe mining speed as a pre-requisite?
AFAICT it won't be possible to skip techs. Would be stupid if so.
The requirements are a very good idea. +1

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by Light » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:28 am

RocketManChronicles wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:55 pm
I used to go straight for the diamond pickaxe through the gem processing long before ever unlocking some of the others like titanium and tungsten. Will this no longer be possible?
I'm also guilty of using early diamonds to bypass upgrades and yet it felt like cheating due to the massive jump in speed from steel to diamond. Proper linear progression makes more sense here, even if it's less involved than before.

I'm also hoping Bob can find the right place to put the tech so it's not too easy to max out, yet not too out of the way that you don't bother to get it. No pressure, Bob.

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:41 am

RocketManChronicles wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:55 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:32 am
Base game replaces the pickaxe with a technology called "Steel pickaxe" or something like that, which increases hand mining speed.
Bob's mining adds several tiers to this research to produce speeds on par with the old diamond pickaxe.
I used to go straight for the diamond pickaxe through the gem processing long before ever unlocking some of the others like titanium and tungsten. Will this no longer be possible? As in the new pickaxe techs are linear, where they have a requirement of researching the tech to produce the material (i.e. Titanium processing is needed for the titanium "pickaxe" crafting speed; and then tungsten requires the titanium pickaxe and tungsten processing)? Or can it be non-linear, where a diamond pickaxe mining speed can be researched with gem processing technologies and not requiring tungsten pickaxe mining speed as a pre-requisite?
Current implementation is simply just...
Steel pickaxe -> Steel pickaxe 2 -> Steel pickaxe 3 -> Steel Pickaxe 4 and maybe a 5, I forgot, each tier requires an additional type of science pack, so it wouldn't be too hard to get to 2 off the bat. The first tier may require steel as a requirement.
It doesn't have to remain this way, it was mainly just a "This is the new method now, lets just add more tiers."

One possible solution would be to just add a branch to Titanium processing "Titanium Pickaxe", with no other requirements. Like many other technologies, the unlock is simply a +mining speed, and they all add together, so it doesn't really matter what order you research them in, but they're not all buffing by the same, so you'd notice a difference if you research diamond pickaxe last, but probably wouldn't if you researched steel pickaxe last.

At the moment though, there is no plan to do anything else with this.
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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by RocketManChronicles » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:58 pm

Light wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:28 am
RocketManChronicles wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:55 pm
I used to go straight for the diamond pickaxe through the gem processing long before ever unlocking some of the others like titanium and tungsten. Will this no longer be possible?
I'm also guilty of using early diamonds to bypass upgrades and yet it felt like cheating due to the massive jump in speed from steel to diamond. Proper linear progression makes more sense here, even if it's less involved than before.

I'm also hoping Bob can find the right place to put the tech so it's not too easy to max out, yet not too out of the way that you don't bother to get it. No pressure, Bob.
Yes, it was quite nice to max out the mining speed after steel. And it was a comforting feeling to know I did not have to worry about the pickaxe again after having a few made in my inventory.
bobingabout wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:41 am
RocketManChronicles wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:55 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:32 am
Base game replaces the pickaxe with a technology called "Steel pickaxe" or something like that, which increases hand mining speed.
Bob's mining adds several tiers to this research to produce speeds on par with the old diamond pickaxe.
I used to go straight for the diamond pickaxe through the gem processing long before ever unlocking some of the others like titanium and tungsten. Will this no longer be possible? As in the new pickaxe techs are linear, where they have a requirement of researching the tech to produce the material (i.e. Titanium processing is needed for the titanium "pickaxe" crafting speed; and then tungsten requires the titanium pickaxe and tungsten processing)? Or can it be non-linear, where a diamond pickaxe mining speed can be researched with gem processing technologies and not requiring tungsten pickaxe mining speed as a pre-requisite?
Current implementation is simply just...
Steel pickaxe -> Steel pickaxe 2 -> Steel pickaxe 3 -> Steel Pickaxe 4 and maybe a 5, I forgot, each tier requires an additional type of science pack, so it wouldn't be too hard to get to 2 off the bat. The first tier may require steel as a requirement.
It doesn't have to remain this way, it was mainly just a "This is the new method now, lets just add more tiers."

One possible solution would be to just add a branch to Titanium processing "Titanium Pickaxe", with no other requirements. Like many other technologies, the unlock is simply a +mining speed, and they all add together, so it doesn't really matter what order you research them in, but they're not all buffing by the same, so you'd notice a difference if you research diamond pickaxe last, but probably wouldn't if you researched steel pickaxe last.

At the moment though, there is no plan to do anything else with this.
Ok, so you just confirmed my suspicions on how the new "pickaxe" will work, just adding percentage to hand mining speed. Maybe I can make a suggestion here to keep the previous pickaxes "in the game."

Keep the progression as you have it, but on top of each "tier" requiring a new science pack, also have the requirement of the pickaxe it replaces. In 0.16, you had Iron, Steel, Brass, Cobalt, Titanium, Tungsten, and Diamond. The new "Steel Pickaxe 2" replaces that of the former Brass Pickaxe. Have that tech require the previous tier "Steel Pickaxe" + next science pack + "Alloy Processing" (iirc that is what gives you access to brass). Do the same for the next one, require "Cobalt Processing" + next science pack + previous tier. You may run out of science packs at the highest tiers, which is fine, just have the material processing tech as an unlock. The progression may be a little flatter than four or five tiers along with small increases, but obviously over all of them, it is a utility that makes a big difference once all are researched.

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:32 pm

Probably don't need all of those tiers, but... Tier AND material, doesn't sound like a bad idea.
Steel -> Cobalt -> Titanium -> Tungsten Carbide? then maybe diamond on top.

We'll see.
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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by Light » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:35 am

bobingabout wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:32 pm
Probably don't need all of those tiers, but... Tier AND material, doesn't sound like a bad idea.
Steel -> Cobalt -> Titanium -> Tungsten Carbide? then maybe diamond on top.

We'll see.
I'd like to suggest that those who use warfare could get an extra tier using alien science. Essentially creating an axe out of refined alien metal that can top diamond.

It's an incentive to get out there and hunt nests for the final mining speed increase, which is befitting of the warfare mod where aliens provide you with the best military and power armour upgrades. It just needs a high science pack count given the ease of farming small artifacts to better encourage nest hunting.

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by RocketManChronicles » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Light wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:35 am
bobingabout wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:32 pm
Probably don't need all of those tiers, but... Tier AND material, doesn't sound like a bad idea.
Steel -> Cobalt -> Titanium -> Tungsten Carbide? then maybe diamond on top.

We'll see.
I'd like to suggest that those who use warfare could get an extra tier using alien science. Essentially creating an axe out of refined alien metal that can top diamond.

It's an incentive to get out there and hunt nests for the final mining speed increase, which is befitting of the warfare mod where aliens provide you with the best military and power armour upgrades. It just needs a high science pack count given the ease of farming small artifacts to better encourage nest hunting.
As one who plays Deathworld+ (Bob's, NE, Rampant, Wisps, modifying vanilla deathworld settings to even harder...), I will back this. One tech that requires all other alien alloy techs (blue and orange?) before unlocking. And yes, high science pack count to just counter the farming of artifacts to this point in the game.

I still vote for an infinite alien science; just one. I think it would be nice to have something to continue investing alien artifacts in. The last I played of my 0.16 world, I had nearly 150k pink alien artifacts stored up along with about 20k each of the Bob's colors. It would be nice to have an incentive to continue warfare on them for better tech.

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by Inoom » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:01 pm

How much pollution oil burner generator produce?

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:01 am

Inoom wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:01 pm
How much pollution oil burner generator produce?
it looks like T1 is about that of a boiler, 0.016 (boiler is 0.01538... it's 0.1/6.5), T2 is 0.013 and T3 is 0.01. Hydrazine generator is 0.002, so 20% of the T3.
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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by Inoom » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:16 pm

So, oil burners is not more ecological?

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by mexmer » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:37 pm

Inoom wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:16 pm
So, oil burners is not more ecological?
guess you have never seen oil burner generator or diesel generator :D

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:01 pm

Inoom wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:16 pm
So, oil burners is not more ecological?
It's more of opening up options to the player. don't forget that I also wrote into the game emissions multipliers. different fuels will pollute more than others. If you burn Hydrogen for example, it produces very little pollution.
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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by mexmer » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:41 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:01 pm
Inoom wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:16 pm
So, oil burners is not more ecological?
It's more of opening up options to the player. don't forget that I also wrote into the game emissions multipliers. different fuels will pollute more than others. If you burn Hydrogen for example, it produces very little pollution.
Burning hydrogen? Don’t you mean hydrazine? For effectively burning hydrogen, you will need something similar to tokamak reactor, getting it to plasma state, then taking out heat. :mrgreen:

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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:55 am

mexmer wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:41 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:01 pm
Inoom wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:16 pm
So, oil burners is not more ecological?
It's more of opening up options to the player. don't forget that I also wrote into the game emissions multipliers. different fuels will pollute more than others. If you burn Hydrogen for example, it produces very little pollution.
Burning hydrogen? Don’t you mean hydrazine? For effectively burning hydrogen, you will need something similar to tokamak reactor, getting it to plasma state, then taking out heat. :mrgreen:
You can actually burn Hydrogen. To compensate for it being too OP, I set it to a low fuel value. and the consumption rate of the generator is capped, so the amount of power you get out of it makes it seem like a joke.
in any case, you should be aware you can't filter fluids, either a fluidbox allows only a specific fluid to enter, or all fluids, and if it has a fuel value, you can burn it as fuel. as a result, you can't ban hydrogen specifically from the liquid generator.

I always intended for hydrogen to be a fuel, if you recall the original implementation had a burnable hydrogen canister.
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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by Tomik » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:27 am

bobingabout wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:55 am
mexmer wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:41 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:01 pm
Inoom wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:16 pm
So, oil burners is not more ecological?
It's more of opening up options to the player. don't forget that I also wrote into the game emissions multipliers. different fuels will pollute more than others. If you burn Hydrogen for example, it produces very little pollution.
Burning hydrogen? Don’t you mean hydrazine? For effectively burning hydrogen, you will need something similar to tokamak reactor, getting it to plasma state, then taking out heat. :mrgreen:
You can actually burn Hydrogen. To compensate for it being too OP, I set it to a low fuel value. and the consumption rate of the generator is capped, so the amount of power you get out of it makes it seem like a joke.
Wouldn't it be more realistic if you increased the energy/steps required to generate a unit of Hydrogen correspondingly while leaving the fuel value the same?
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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:56 pm

Tomik wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:27 am
bobingabout wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:55 am
mexmer wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:41 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:01 pm
Inoom wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:16 pm
So, oil burners is not more ecological?
It's more of opening up options to the player. don't forget that I also wrote into the game emissions multipliers. different fuels will pollute more than others. If you burn Hydrogen for example, it produces very little pollution.
Burning hydrogen? Don’t you mean hydrazine? For effectively burning hydrogen, you will need something similar to tokamak reactor, getting it to plasma state, then taking out heat. :mrgreen:
You can actually burn Hydrogen. To compensate for it being too OP, I set it to a low fuel value. and the consumption rate of the generator is capped, so the amount of power you get out of it makes it seem like a joke.
Wouldn't it be more realistic if you increased the energy/steps required to generate a unit of Hydrogen correspondingly while leaving the fuel value the same?
Balance. it kind of makes hydrogen as a fuel overpowered if it has a realistic fuel value.
on top of this, if you make it more expensive to create, you make creating it for other uses too expensive, or having a recipe that require 0.01 units of hydrogen to balance the cost.

Giving it a low fuel value was the better of a bunch of bad options.
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Re: [0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by mrvn » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:21 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:56 pm
Tomik wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:27 am
bobingabout wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:55 am
mexmer wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:41 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:01 pm


It's more of opening up options to the player. don't forget that I also wrote into the game emissions multipliers. different fuels will pollute more than others. If you burn Hydrogen for example, it produces very little pollution.
Burning hydrogen? Don’t you mean hydrazine? For effectively burning hydrogen, you will need something similar to tokamak reactor, getting it to plasma state, then taking out heat. :mrgreen:
You can actually burn Hydrogen. To compensate for it being too OP, I set it to a low fuel value. and the consumption rate of the generator is capped, so the amount of power you get out of it makes it seem like a joke.
Wouldn't it be more realistic if you increased the energy/steps required to generate a unit of Hydrogen correspondingly while leaving the fuel value the same?
Balance. it kind of makes hydrogen as a fuel overpowered if it has a realistic fuel value.
on top of this, if you make it more expensive to create, you make creating it for other uses too expensive, or having a recipe that require 0.01 units of hydrogen to balance the cost.

Giving it a low fuel value was the better of a bunch of bad options.
Doesn't hydrogen have a low fuel value in reality too because it isn't dense? There simply isn't that much hydrogen in a liter or hydrogen.

On the other hand converting 100 liter of water into 60 liter of hydrogen would mean it is under extreme pressure (maybe even liquid?). Releasing that pressure in the boiler would cool it down a lot and eat into the gain from burning it, right? So a low fuel value seems right.

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