Ash and Pressured Air supposed to be a huge bottleneck?

[mrbaggins]

Hi all. Long time Factorian/AngelBobber, but first time Pyanodonner.

I'm just now unlocking science pack 2, but I've worked out that I have two MASSIVE problems. First, Ash. With the burner locked behind a couple hundred science2 and flue-gas -> ash also, the only way to get ash is the wood->Coal->coke line that makes a single one.

And I've just worked out that to get to the burner, I'm also going to need stainless steel, which is another huge problem.

Similarly, pressured air is stopping me from using a lot of the improved efficiency options that I've unlocked.

Is this intended?

[kingarthur]

Hi all. Long time Factorian/AngelBobber, but first time Pyanodonner.

I'm just now unlocking science pack 2, but I've worked out that I have two MASSIVE problems. First, Ash. With the burner locked behind a couple hundred science2 and flue-gas -> ash also, the only way to get ash is the wood->Coal->coke line that makes a single one.

And I've just worked out that to get to the burner, I'm also going to need stainless steel, which is another huge problem.

Similarly, pressured air is stopping me from using a lot of the improved efficiency options that I've unlocked.

Is this intended?

Which pymods are you running. I'm pretty sure the burner is unlocked with just sci 1. You should be able to get more ash thru several more recipes like the tar to coal gas. Coal gas to syngas. Few more I cant think of at the moment.

[mrbaggins]

"all of them"

The problem might be that the item void recipes mess with FNEI and so there's 1523 recipes for ash and I might be missing some, although it looks like the first few are the "useful" ones.

[kingarthur]

"all of them"

The problem might be that the item void recipes mess with FNEI and so there's 1523 recipes for ash and I might be missing some, although it looks like the first few are the "useful" ones.

ok i just checked and the burner is its own tech needs just 2x40 sci 1.

try using what is it really used for. https://mods.factorio.com/mod/what-is-i ... y-used-for. the first 21 non-void recipes have ash as an output product before it shows the long long list of void recipes.

[mrbaggins]

>ok i just checked and the burner is its own tech needs just 2x40 sci 1.

Yes, but it has the prerequisites of Oil processing (100), Sulfur (150), desulfur (10), coal processing2 (50) first. All of which are science pack 2 researches, so that's 210 science pack 2s first.

Of the 21 "recipes" that aren't voids

The first (and only real one) use coal gas, too precious a resource, and basically what I'm making that loop for in the first place.
One is the coke recipe I'm using already
One uses pressured air (see op for other problem on that)
Three uses Coal processing 2 (so needs 200 science 2 packs anyway)
Five use Desulfur (so needs 150 science 2 packs)
Seven are science pack 3
Two are production science
One is high tech science

So the only option is make a massively gigantic wood - coal - Coke - Coal gas - Ash loop, and siphon off some coal gas for my other needs. It would still barely double my ash output from a fraction of a percent of what I need to two fractions.

[kingarthur]

>ok i just checked and the burner is its own tech needs just 2x40 sci 1.

Yes, but it has the prerequisites of Oil processing (100), Sulfur (150), desulfur (10), coal processing2 (50) first. All of which are science pack 2 researches, so that's 210 science pack 2s first.

my bad. thats what i get for looking at the code and not reading the tech prerequisite.

Of the 21 "recipes" that aren't voids

The first (and only real one) use coal gas, too precious a resource, and basically what I'm making that loop for in the first place.
One is the coke recipe I'm using already
One uses pressured air (see op for other problem on that)
Three uses Coal processing 2 (so needs 200 science 2 packs anyway)
Five use Desulfur (so needs 150 science 2 packs)
Seven are science pack 3
Two are production science
One is high tech science

So the only option is make a massively gigantic wood - coal - Coke - Coal gas - Ash loop, and siphon off some coal gas for my other needs. It would still barely double my ash output from a fraction of a percent of what I need to two fractions.

what is it that your trying to make? as the only item that is "needed" is the cermet and by that point ive never had any issues as ive always had enough ash from power production and other processes to meet the demand. im just asking cause ive never noticed an issue but i also tend to play kind of slower so it could just be me.

[mrbaggins]

what is it that your trying to make?

Science pack 2, which requires geo-samples, which after some chain of shit ends up at rich clay, which requires ash

[kingarthur]

what is it that your trying to make?

Science pack 2, which requires geo-samples, which after some chain of shit ends up at rich clay, which requires ash

oh. i see. i never use that recipe as i always preferred the tar to rich clay recipe as ive always got a lot of tar and as you've run into getting the ash for its a pos. it seems but im not sure if the tar to rich clay is intended to be the easier and better way or not but i prefer it as i can just dump quickly with the tar pit or store the byproducts. hopefully pyanodon will chime in later with an official opinion on if that his intent

[ulmennaleith]

I don't know about the tar to rich clay method, I also use the rich clay recipe that uses ash. When I start making science pack 2, I get ash from coke > coal gas, and quickly switch to coal gas > syngas, which provides lots of ash. At this point I start producing power from syngas instead of boilers and turbines, this way I can use all my coal in the destructive distillation columns. Another trick to get more coal gas is to use coke as a fuel for furnaces : even if you turn 8 coal (80MJ) into 6 coke (60MJ) (so less fuel energy), it's still useful as you get coal gas and tar.

Ash shouldn't be a problem anymore : in yesterday's update, pyanodon switched pressured air recipe to coal processing 1, so you have access to the tar > coal gas + ashes recipe with red science (I think you need to use a command to update the tech tree after updating a save)

[mrbaggins]

I... don't know how i missed that. (Tar)

And that's interesting. I'll have to update. Any idea on this command for updating a tech tree? I would have thought that it auto does with the mod update.

[immortal_sniper1]

get tar from stone
regarding ash you get that from makeing syngas and tar>coalgas
if you realy need more ash maybe make a wood loop and male log>organic matter>burn it into ash ( i nevertried it tho yet )

[pyanodon]

i will fix the burner in the next release.

[mrbaggins]

Another one that makes no sense: Red hot coke.

Coke processing 1 is learnable really early on in the piece for science pack 1.

This gives 3 recipes only. Red hot coke, Coke from red hot coke, and outlet gas from the byproducts.

Two of those recipes aren't touchable until science pack 2 because of the machine required to do them, and the first one is useless without the other two as the products can't be used, they're intermediates only.

Either red-hot coke needs an MJ value, or one or two techs need to be moved.

Edit: One more

Having construction bots early is nice, but useless except for repairs. Storage chests would fix that, I cheated a single one in for deforestation purposes

[aklesey1]

get tar from stone
regarding ash you get that from makeing syngas and tar>coalgas
if you realy need more ash maybe make a wood loop and male log>organic matter>burn it into ash ( i nevertried it tho yet )

WAT???
Where u find recipe to burn organic matter into ash? Nonsense

[immortal_sniper1]

get tar from stone
regarding ash you get that from makeing syngas and tar>coalgas
if you realy need more ash maybe make a wood loop and male log>organic matter>burn it into ash ( i nevertried it tho yet )

WAT???
Where u find recipe to burn organic matter into ash? Nonsense

5:1 its a bad recipe but its there its in hidden recipes