Fewer types of inserters!

[AileTheAlien]

TL;DR

Reduce the seven inserter types, to four: burner, normal, long-armed, stack.

What ?

Definitely

• Remove blues from the game.
• Remove purples and whites from the game.

Maybe

• Add inserter-speed upgrade(s).
• Remove partial-stack bonuses from non-stack inserters.

Why ?

Yellow inserters are useful only briefly, before you get blue inserters. They cost about half as much as blue inserters, and about half as much power to run as blues, but that's a very small gain, compared to the huge quantities of resources and products, which those inserters will be moving over the course of their lifetime, or compared to the costs of the assemblers they're interacting with. Blues are only a tiny extra bit of resources, but give a huge boost to speed, or to the complexity and space requirements, if you try to use multiple yellows instead. Blues again get superceded by stack inserters for throughput, but the higher-again cost at least gives you pause for thought. Since they cost so much more, and require piping in some oil / plastic, yellows or blues become used, for filling low-power, low-throughput roles, in smaller factory sections, loading ore from belts into train-chests, etc. It's probably best to just get rid of blues; Then the low-power / early-game role of yellows stays clear, and greens also become more obvious.

Filter inserters are another problem in the game; Both stack and single versions suffer here. Splitters can filter ingredients on belts, so there's no need for filter inserters to be used in any kind of belt-cleaning role. Inserters only pull what's specifically needed for assemblers / chem-plants / etc, so you're getting a free filter-like effect there, for use in double-sided belts or sushi-belt setups. Train-cars can be filtered for free (if the player knows about the feature), so there's no need for filter inserters there either. There's very few places that a filter-inserter would be useful, and those can easily be filled by the other filtering I just described. These inserters are clutter on the menu, tech-tree, and wasting precious dev-time any time they need to be updated, tested, balanced, art-asset-updated, etc. Nuke 'em, I say!

Burner inserters are useful in early-game coal-setups, and later on they can be used in no-electricity train-fueling setups, or for making your boiler system resilient to brownouts and blackouts. So they get to stay. Long-handed inserters fill an obvious role, so they get to stay too.

This will probably need need some re-balancing, to smooth out the transition from yellow to green. Since the blues are basically just a costly upgrade to yellows, some research could be added to fill the same role. Call it Inserter Speed (level 1 through X). I wouldn't make this separate speed-researches per inserter-type, since your factory's setup would get out of balance, if your researches got out of balance. Since burner inserters should get a speed boost from other fuels, they don't need this research. The stack-inserter speed bonus could be dropped if they started at max speed, like they are currently, in the game; Maybe in this scenario, the max-speed upgrade is a pre-requisite to greens. This also ties in with another problem I see, that the stack-bonus research is all coupled together into a single research. It makes it harder to balance (since now you need to keep it late-game for stack inserters, but also place random points along the upgrade path for non-stack inserters), but also doesn't make sense. Why do non-stack inserters get partial stacks? I feel like this would make more sense as a speed upgrade, like I just described.

[darkfrei]

How about modules for inserters? One gives speed, another adds stacking, third adds filter support.

One research for slots amount, another for modules and few tiers of them.

[AileTheAlien]

Although that would be fewer inserter types, it would be more overall complexity in the game. In the system I propose, you'd have:

1. burner inserters
2. inserters
3. long-armed inserters
4. stack inserters
5. stack-size upgrades
6. (possibly) speed upgrades

In your system, if I'm understanding you correctly, you'd end up with these:

1. burner inserters
2. inserters
3. module research
4. stack modules
5. stack upgrades
6. speed modules
7. speed upgrades
8. filter modules

That's about 1.5x the number of things, simply to get back to where we're currently at in the game. It would also involve a lot more work on the player's part, placing all the modules.

You also seemed to have missed my point, that filter inserters are superfluous in the game. There's other easier, cheaper, higher-throughput options, already in the game.

[Trebor]

There are many different ways to build factories. Your factories may tend not to use filter inserters while my use of sushi belts requires them (you can only put four non-filter inserters around a storage chest so it can only be filled from four belts so at max 8 items). Here is a list of items for my complete base:

Screen Shot 2018-12-30 at 12.36.34 AM.png (1.9 MiB) Viewed 5552 times

As you see I have used more filter inserters than blue belts. Since my play style does not require blue belts should I suggest they be removed? Of course not! Just because I don't use them doesn't mean other people won't find a use for them.

As far as resources required to use filter inserters vs splinters, here is what is required to break down an 18 item sushi belt using splinters vs using a filter inserter:

Screen Shot 2018-12-30 at 12.55.54 AM.png (355.77 KiB) Viewed 5552 times

Screen Shot 2018-12-30 at 12.56.15 AM.png (60.64 KiB) Viewed 5552 times

I ask you which uses fewer resources?

Yes the filter inserters are a niche item and stack filter more so, but different people play differently. I would suggest you ask to have an option to hide individual items you feel you don't need then to remove them from the game completely. Or you could have a mod do it for you.

[Sad_Brother]

... There's other easier, cheaper, higher-throughput options, already in the game.

But less controllable.

It seems I see the first idea to have fewer tools. Other want more

If you would find most effective way to play this game, would you ask to remove all other ways?

[pleegwat]

I'd rather suggest it seems strange that inserters need an extra crafting pass, materials, and technology to get filtering ability. But splitters get it standard.

[Serenity]

Filter inserters have applications in some smart train setups. For example a supply station that calls a train and only pulls out exactly what's missing.

There are daisy chained labs that use filter inserters to control the way science packs are moved

You can use filter inserters to prevent the contamination of train unloading stations with wrong products

They are useful in some uranium processing setups

With the filter splitter, yes, you don't always need them to pull from belts. But a filter inserter takes up less space. I have one spot in my mall where using a splitter would be bit awkward

[weaknespase]

If anything needs to be done with inserters, I think it's moving filtering capability to regular inserters and ditching special variants. But that would mean losing graphical fidelity in inability to see special inserter logic from the first glance on setup.

[SuperSandro2000]

Modules into inserters does not fix the early game and over buffs the late game.
The filtered ones are definitely needed for modded where some recipes have more than ones output and mixed belts with splitter just feel like a downgrade.
Removing blue inserter is also a very bad idea as it removes the entire inserter mid game and stack inserter can be quite late.
Moving filter capability to normal inserter would be a really bad idea in their current state as they don't move items when no filter is set.
Why change it for the sake of changing?
You have 4 speed tiers and 2 variants eg filtered and long.

[weaknespase]

Modules into inserters does not fix the early game and over buffs the late game.
The filtered ones are definitely needed for modded where some recipes have more than ones output and mixed belts with splitter just feel like a downgrade.
Removing blue inserter is also a very bad idea as it removes the entire inserter mid game and stack inserter can be quite late.
Moving filter capability to normal inserter would be a really bad idea in their current state as they don't move items when no filter is set.
Why change it for the sake of changing?
You have 4 speed tiers and 2 variants eg filtered and long.

I initially was confused with filter inserter behavior, that if filter is not set it won't move anything. If filtering feature merged to regular versions, then no filter should match any item.

[SuperSandro2000]

I initially was confused with filter inserter behavior, that if filter is not set it won't move anything. If filtering feature merged to regular versions, then no filter should match any item.

Which would totally break the ability to set filters via wires and inverting the behavior when a wire is connected is just confusing.

[AileTheAlien]

I was unaware people used filter inserters for special train-setups. I only ever saw the other types of inserters, when for example, googling for "efficient yellow belt train unload". I'd totally be down for having inserters get filtering for free, like splitters.

As far as filtering with the circuit network, maybe just have it act like splitters too? If splitters can have their filters set by circuit, then inserters should act the same way.

[Serenity]

As far as filtering with the circuit network, maybe just have it act like splitters too? If splitters can have their filters set by circuit, then inserters should act the same way.

The problem is this: a filter inserter without set filters won't move anything. This is important when setting the filters via the circuit network

Though I guess there could be a checkbox to activate the filtering functionality and then it behaves that way. Still, I don't see the issue. If you don't have a use for them don't produce them. You're usually not going to need masses of them, so the resource cost of the extra step isn't huge

[Sad_Brother]

I was unaware people used filter inserters for special train-setups. I only ever saw the other types of inserters, when for example, googling for "efficient yellow belt train unload". I'd totally be down for having inserters get filtering for free, like splitters.

As far as filtering with the circuit network, maybe just have it act like splitters too? If splitters can have their filters set by circuit, then inserters should act the same way.

Again you want to disable control you never use.
Other players use it for good.

[Darinth]

I'd maybe like to see the filter inserters removed and their functionality simply folded into existing inserters via a checkbox. I could see doing the same thing with long-handed inserters; fold their functionality into other inserters and turn it on/off with a checkbox. I do feel like there are simply a lot of inserters, but I wouldn't want to lose *any* of their functionality, it's all useful in different circumstances.

[darkfrei]

I'd maybe like to see the filter inserters removed and their functionality simply folded into existing inserters via a checkbox. I could see doing the same thing with long-handed inserters; fold their functionality into other inserters and turn it on/off with a checkbox. I do feel like there are simply a lot of inserters, but I wouldn't want to lose *any* of their functionality, it's all useful in different circumstances.

Radiobutton:

• Any item (standard inserter)
• All filter items (standard filter inserter)
• Except filter items (new)

[Jap2.0]

• All filter items (standard filter inserter)
• Except filter items (new)

So basically whitelist and blacklist (which is in 0.17, but that's unrelated)?