So if you start the most ruthless game you possibly can and then stand still forever, you'll never die?
Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
if you start ruthless game, you will die, because they will eventually overrun your base.5thHorseman wrote: βSun Nov 11, 2018 9:30 pmSo if you start the most ruthless game you possibly can and then stand still forever, you'll never die?
by not "expanding" into start area is only meant, they will not build nest there (ground worms will also not spawn inside start area), but pollution always triggers aggression and you presence near them too.
also mind, while they will not make nest inside start area, migration path still might be trough start area, so even if you just sit there, doing nothing (and making no pollution), they will eventually pass by and attack you.
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
That is corret. As long as no pollution ever reaches them - i.e. by not building a factory - they will never attack you. I confirmed this by cranking all settings up to 11 and then using /c game.speed = 1000. After 30 hours i was still standing still.5thHorseman wrote: βSun Nov 11, 2018 9:30 pmSo if you start the most ruthless game you possibly can and then stand still forever, you'll never die?
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
Thanks for correction, i always thought they still can path trough (never checked with debug )eradicator wrote: βMon Nov 12, 2018 8:29 amThat is corret. As long as no pollution ever reaches them - i.e. by not building a factory - they will never attack you. I confirmed this by cranking all settings up to 11 and then using /c game.speed = 1000. After 30 hours i was still standing still.5thHorseman wrote: βSun Nov 11, 2018 9:30 pmSo if you start the most ruthless game you possibly can and then stand still forever, you'll never die?
Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
About those sidelegs. Does an entity that occurs in thousands need that much visual noise around itself? The blue biter running really fast on the gif image doesn't look nice.
As game currently plays, biters often end up bunching together in tight globs. Did you test how those crowds would look with new animations?
What about the renderer load? In some previous report you've been talking about how overlaid sprites are bad for performance. I would bet that these new legs will be overlaid by other biters all the time and they do look like they'd take up more pixels than old ones.
New face and the art picture looks nice though.
Random thought: they're called Biters, but their attack animation looks more like the mantis shrimp attack than the process of biting.
As game currently plays, biters often end up bunching together in tight globs. Did you test how those crowds would look with new animations?
What about the renderer load? In some previous report you've been talking about how overlaid sprites are bad for performance. I would bet that these new legs will be overlaid by other biters all the time and they do look like they'd take up more pixels than old ones.
New face and the art picture looks nice though.
Random thought: they're called Biters, but their attack animation looks more like the mantis shrimp attack than the process of biting.
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
Am I the only one who wants to see more enemies than just biters? I mean, I understand that It would be difficult to add a few extra species, but when you think about it, biters currently are the dominant species wherever the player happens to be. They have no competition, which if you look into nature, isn't something that would naturally occur cause that shows intelligence that could rival a human, which I don't think would be seen in a biter. I get it, we should fix what we have before we get more, but when the day when you guys say the biters are completely finished, might you add a new species to see some more variation? Thank you for your time.
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
I think the biter looks unbalanced.
Based on body shape, its weight should be more towards the front, so it would look more natural with the legs positioned more towards the front.
Based on body shape, its weight should be more towards the front, so it would look more natural with the legs positioned more towards the front.
Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
Don't forget that this is not a survival game, or an ecosystem simulator. The biters are just there to provide an antagonist mechanism to the player's factory expansion.GlorifiedToaster wrote: βMon Nov 12, 2018 2:44 pmAm I the only one who wants to see more enemies than just biters? I mean, I understand that It would be difficult to add a few extra species, but when you think about it, biters currently are the dominant species wherever the player happens to be. They have no competition, which if you look into nature, isn't something that would naturally occur cause that shows intelligence that could rival a human, which I don't think would be seen in a biter. I get it, we should fix what we have before we get more, but when the day when you guys say the biters are completely finished, might you add a new species to see some more variation? Thank you for your time.
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
Like what for example?GlorifiedToaster wrote: βMon Nov 12, 2018 2:44 pmAm I the only one who wants to see more enemies than just biters?
How would that change the interaction with enemies in a game in which they are mainly just warning messages, blips on the radar and in which it can take you 10 minutes to reach the point that has been attacked?
Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
yes, you are only one. if i wanted survival game i would play something else. for me bitters are just part of eco that is here to limit speed of your expansion. i play half time without bitters, when i have complex builds with complex mod and want to focus on actual building and not want to spent resources or time on dealing with those creatures.GlorifiedToaster wrote: βMon Nov 12, 2018 2:44 pmAm I the only one who wants to see more enemies than just biters? I mean, I understand that It would be difficult to add a few extra species, but when you think about it, biters currently are the dominant species wherever the player happens to be. They have no competition, which if you look into nature, isn't something that would naturally occur cause that shows intelligence that could rival a human, which I don't think would be seen in a biter. I get it, we should fix what we have before we get more, but when the day when you guys say the biters are completely finished, might you add a new species to see some more variation? Thank you for your time.
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
Yeah, the basics are there. Tough melee brawlers, feeble ranged %&$!ers, slowly get more powerful until there's also a damage sponge.
I guess you could also add a "hunter" that doesn't care about pollution but that will try to kill the player on sight, but it would just make the game more annoying to play. Maybe if it only comes out at night? That way wandering at night without proper equipment would be more dangerous and you'd have to be more aware of the day-night cycle.
Other than that, enemy factions with some way of teasing them to attack each other instead of you, but that seems outside the game's scope.
Lastly, some kind of "boss" monster(s). Maybe one that wanders around the map aimlessly but is practically impossible to kill and destroys everything it happens to walk over (so is more like a natural disaster), might create some interesting puzzles. Some kind of "raid" that you have to fight your way through and then kill a big thing for... an endless mine or something? Nothing is really that valuable at endgame.
Overall, none of this really adds much to the game of "Factorio" which is focused on your factory. At best it gives you a better reason for having the factory, but munitions are (still) unbalanced and pretty cheap. Best done in mods and/or scenarios that rework the idea of the game to more survival/military based. Forget the artillery train, the only way to deploy (useful) turrets against one of these guys is via orbital drop.
It will be really cool to see what modders come up with after release.
I guess you could also add a "hunter" that doesn't care about pollution but that will try to kill the player on sight, but it would just make the game more annoying to play. Maybe if it only comes out at night? That way wandering at night without proper equipment would be more dangerous and you'd have to be more aware of the day-night cycle.
Other than that, enemy factions with some way of teasing them to attack each other instead of you, but that seems outside the game's scope.
Lastly, some kind of "boss" monster(s). Maybe one that wanders around the map aimlessly but is practically impossible to kill and destroys everything it happens to walk over (so is more like a natural disaster), might create some interesting puzzles. Some kind of "raid" that you have to fight your way through and then kill a big thing for... an endless mine or something? Nothing is really that valuable at endgame.
Overall, none of this really adds much to the game of "Factorio" which is focused on your factory. At best it gives you a better reason for having the factory, but munitions are (still) unbalanced and pretty cheap. Best done in mods and/or scenarios that rework the idea of the game to more survival/military based. Forget the artillery train, the only way to deploy (useful) turrets against one of these guys is via orbital drop.
It will be really cool to see what modders come up with after release.
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
We're getting into semantics now. My wording was detail, not realism. If you zoom in enough on any bug (even the cute ones), it will look more disturbing IMO.
On a side note, realism would be pretty subjective for a game like Factorio. It would depend entirely on the player's suspension of disbelief.
Yes, I agree, that was a stupid thing for me to say. On the other hand, maybe the devs will keep around low-res sprites for players who find the high-res biters disturbing, although that wouldn't be much of a solution either. Come to think of it, someone may have to mod less disturbing models in or something.
Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
There should be a mod that pixelates the icky bits.KoblerMan wrote: βMon Nov 12, 2018 8:48 pmYes, I agree, that was a stupid thing for me to say. On the other hand, maybe the devs will keep around low-res sprites for players who find the high-res biters disturbing, although that wouldn't be much of a solution either. Come to think of it, someone may have to mod less disturbing models in or something.
Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
I thought of that too, worried that I am that my average grade laptop will soon run out of juice to cope with all of these visuals.Adil wrote: βMon Nov 12, 2018 12:58 pmAbout those sidelegs. Does an entity that occurs in thousands need that much visual noise around itself? The blue biter running really fast on the gif image doesn't look nice.
As game currently plays, biters often end up bunching together in tight globs. Did you test how those crowds would look with new animations?
What about the renderer load? In some previous report you've been talking about how overlaid sprites are bad for performance. I would bet that these new legs will be overlaid by other biters all the time and they do look like they'd take up more pixels than old ones.
New face and the art picture looks nice though.
Random thought: they're called Biters, but their attack animation looks more like the mantis shrimp attack than the process of biting.
Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
Cool idea. +1 for thatGlorifiedToaster wrote: βMon Nov 12, 2018 2:44 pmAm I the only one who wants to see more enemies than just biters? I mean, I understand that It would be difficult to add a few extra species, but when you think about it, biters currently are the dominant species wherever the player happens to be. They have no competition, which if you look into nature, isn't something that would naturally occur cause that shows intelligence that could rival a human, which I don't think would be seen in a biter. I get it, we should fix what we have before we get more, but when the day when you guys say the biters are completely finished, might you add a new species to see some more variation? Thank you for your time.
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
I hope they get idle animations. If you're really far away and see them in their natural habitat...
they do absolutely nothing. They stand completely still. Even them simply breathing or bobbing would be preferable to being statues.
they do absolutely nothing. They stand completely still. Even them simply breathing or bobbing would be preferable to being statues.
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
I think that particular part of their lifecycle has been slaughtered on the sacrificial altar in honor of his majesty Yuu Peyes the Alaccellerating.Creepopolous wrote: βTue Nov 13, 2018 2:42 amI hope they get idle animations. If you're really far away and see them in their natural habitat...
they do absolutely nothing. They stand completely still. Even them simply breathing or bobbing would be preferable to being statues.
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
Of course would AI cost CPU time - but AI is relatively easy to parallelize and Factorio can't currently fully utilize 8 hyperthreads / 4 cores (wich i consider to be mainstream now). So additional biter AI could come for free (almost as Factorio still needs to get events to the AI and results to the renderer).eradicator wrote: βTue Nov 13, 2018 8:43 amI think that particular part of their lifecycle has been slaughtered on the sacrificial altar in honor of his majesty Yuu Peyes the Alaccellerating.
The reason to not improve biter AI for 0.17 is probably a todo list overflow.
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Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
You are forgetting the memory cost of accessing large swaths of the map to make your complex AI decisions.Oktokolo wrote: βTue Nov 13, 2018 12:48 pmOf course would AI cost CPU time - but AI is relatively easy to parallelize and Factorio can't currently fully utilize 8 hyperthreads / 4 cores (wich i consider to be mainstream now). So additional biter AI could come for free (almost as Factorio still needs to get events to the AI and results to the renderer).eradicator wrote: βTue Nov 13, 2018 8:43 amI think that particular part of their lifecycle has been slaughtered on the sacrificial altar in honor of his majesty Yuu Peyes the Alaccellerating.
The reason to not improve biter AI for 0.17 is probably a todo list overflow.
Factorio is memory access bound.
Re: Friday Facts #268 - The modern Biter
would be very interesting if we could make friends and have peace treaties with them so i could have some of their land and would use eff modules to keep pollution down, it would also be nice if i could plant trees and keep pollution down further to not disturb the locals. this way i am not destroying them to get them out of my way.
but, this really does seem like something for a mod scenario instead of vanilla.