Storage Chest Logistic Filter: Bug or "Feature"?

[zOldBulldog]

The way I understand the Storage Chest Logistic Filter is supposed to work is that if you set it, items of that type should go to that particular chest as long as the chest has space.

But... I noticed that if any storage chest has even 1 item of that type - even chests with no filter set at all, the logistic bots will go to that one first instead of delivering to the one with the filter set, even if I am standing right next to it.

As to how to work around it, it is not hard, just search your storage chests (pretty easy to do if you normally keep then in one place) and empty any that have the specific item in it. After that logistic filters work as you would expect.

Still, it "feels wrong", so I am left wondering if I misunderstood something, if there is some scenario where the current behavior is useful (in which case this would clearly be an intentional "feature"), or whether this is a bug. Anybody know?

[Zavian]

Well you don't want 20 different chests to each 1 fast inserter 1 yellow inserter 1 peice of coal etc. Much better to store all the coal in one chest so you don't have lots of partial stacks everywhere, each taking up a slot.

[zOldBulldog]

Well you don't want 20 different chests to each 1 fast inserter 1 yellow inserter 1 peice of coal etc. Much better to store all the coal in one chest so you don't have lots of partial stacks everywhere, each taking up a slot.

Agreed, but shouldn't that *one* chest be the one with the filter set for that item?

[DaleStan]

If all the chests were empty, yes. But that's not the situation you're in. The situation you're in is "Chest A has coal in it. Chest B has a logistic filter for coal."

Why do you care which of your storage (I'm assuming?) chests contain coal? Could you use a buffer or requester instead?

[zOldBulldog]

If all the chests were empty, yes. But that's not the situation you're in. The situation you're in is "Chest A has coal in it. Chest B has a logistic filter for coal."

Why do you care which of your storage (I'm assuming?) chests contain coal? Could you use a buffer or requester instead?

1)You can't use Buffer and Requester chests early on, they are Yellow science tech. By the time you unlock them, you are almost done launching a rocket. So, they might be useful for that very last bit and megabases, but are useless otherwise. Storage Chests are simple Red/Green science and available very early on. So I would much rather base my designs on them.

2) The whole point of a Logistic Filter on the Storage Chest is to perform the function of attracting the selected item. Its simple existence would seem to indicate that the devs intent is for the feature to work. Otherwise they would remove the Logistic Filter from Storage Chests and just expect players to do without until Yellow science and those other chests, wouldn't they?

[Careyn]

It is a feature. As stated above, the filter option only prevents unwanted items from being stored in the chest. If you want the item to be requested you need a requester chest.

[zOldBulldog]

It is a feature. As stated above, the filter option only prevents unwanted items from being stored in the chest. If you want the item to be requested you need a requester chest.

If it is an intentional feature "as it is today" then it is worse than worthless and should be removed. It gives the false impression that you can use the feature when in reality it will backfire in at least two ways:

- If any storage chest - with the filter set or not - has even one item, the items will go there instead.
- If the other chests all fill up, the chest with the filter will ignore the filter and get full of all kinds of junk.

So, it would be better to not even have the feature so that players don't get nasty surprises. And maybe move requester chests (or a new limited version that doesn't retrieve from other chests, only from garbage collection) to green science, to fill the void.

Or better yet... Fix the feature so that it works in an intuitive way:

- Make the filter a hard filter, rejecting all other items no matter what.
- If one or more chests have the storage filter set, prioritize them ahead of other storage chests that don't have the filter for delivery. But NEVER retrieve items from other chests, that is the turf of Requester chests.

While more experienced players can cope with the bad design of the logistic filter and still make it work for them (I certainly can), the newer players are only going to get frustrated and consider it a bug.
It may be possible to call this a feature (a horrid one) as an excuse to ignore it's problems but making it work well is just common sense. Intuitive and reliable features keep and attract players. Flakey "features" annoy them and contribute to players getting tired of the game and more likeky to bail to something else.

[tzwaan]

Make the filter a hard filter, rejecting all other items no matter what.

That's already what happens as far as I know.

The filter is not meant to be used like a requester chest. It's meant to be used to make sure there's room for certain items in your logistics network. For example by making sure there's always a few chests dedicated to iron ore so when you flood your network with coal, you don't run out of iron.

[zOldBulldog]

Make the filter a hard filter, rejecting all other items no matter what.

That's already what happens as far as I know

Nope. Found out the hard way. My other chests filled up and instead of getting a "no space available" message, the chests with filters got overrun with every kind of garbage.

As a defense I now keep a massive storage chest array that will never get filled.

[evopwr]

My 2c, I agree this needs tweaking. I use Buffer Chests for specific items, and storage chests just for "misc" (although I appreciate that its a later research).

Imagine a storage chest with coal filter on it, and another with no filter, for "everything else".
Would be frustrating that the no filter chest fills up, so there is nowhere left to put the "everything else", and then find its full of coal, while your coal storage is empty. Doesn't seem user friendly, or follow common sense expectations.

Experienced players, go "hey, no problem, I can solve that by being tricky, or wait for buffer chests", whereas newbies will be scratching their heads thinking "wtf stupid game".
In the interests of perfection, and 1.0, I think it would be better that bots prioritize applicable storage chests with filters before storage chests without filters.
Just my humble opinion...

[tzwaan]

Make the filter a hard filter, rejecting all other items no matter what.

That's already what happens as far as I know

Nope. Found out the hard way. My other chests filled up and instead of getting a "no space available" message, the chests with filters got overrun with every kind of garbage.

As a defense I now keep a massive storage chest array that will never get filled.

Just checked, and this is false.

Filtered storage chests will never accept the wrong resource and will just act like they're full.

Unless the bots were already on their way before the filters were set.

[zOldBulldog]

Make the filter a hard filter, rejecting all other items no matter what.

That's already what happens as far as I know

Nope. Found out the hard way. My other chests filled up and instead of getting a "no space available" message, the chests with filters got overrun with every kind of garbage.

As a defense I now keep a massive storage chest array that will never get filled.

Just checked, and this is false.

Filtered storage chests will never accept the wrong resource and will just act like they're full.

Unless the bots were already on their way before the filters were set.

It happens once ALL other storage chests fill up. Then instead of giving an error they ignore the logistic filter.

Try it, in a no-mods map:

- In a map with no logistic chests of any kind (like when you first unlock storage chests with green science) setup 2 storage chests, one with a logistic filter and one without.
- Then start sending all kinds of items to trash.
- At first the filtered item goes to the filtered chest and everything else to the unfiltered storage chest. But once the unfiltered one fills up... the wrong items start flowing into the filtered chest

This is what happened to me. I had several but not many chests setup this way. I was using the filtered chest to send things like coal back to their belts (long before yellow science and buffer chests)... it worked well for a while then the trash started to pollute the filtered storage chest and the belt it fed via an inserter. After cleaning up I setup a ton of unfiltered chests (far more than I needed) as protection and the problem no longer happened. But it is clear that the logistic filter does not work as one would intuitively expect.

[WeirdConstructor]

- At first the filtered item goes to the filtered chest and everything else to the unfiltered storage chest. But once the unfiltered one fills up... the wrong items start flowing into the filtered chest

I can not reproduce that. I setup a single roboport. Put some logistics bots in it. Put down 2 storage chests.
One filters for wood. I fill up the other chest without a filter with stuff almost full.
I send all kinds of trash including wood. The logistics bots collect it from me and store it correctly.
As the other chest fills up (the unfiltered one) the logistics bots that are on their way stop
and hover above it. And a warning appears "Not enough logistics storage space".
The filtered storage chest only contains wood at this point (EDIT: and still has ample space for wood).

If I try to send further items to trash, not even the logistics bots start to move
and the stuff remains in my trash slots.

Also deconstruction bots just stop mid air if they can't find space in unfiltered chests.

xxx13232.PNG (133.34 KiB) Viewed 12540 times

[zOldBulldog]

- At first the filtered item goes to the filtered chest and everything else to the unfiltered storage chest. But once the unfiltered one fills up... the wrong items start flowing into the filtered chest

I can not reproduce that. I setup a single roboport. Put some logistics bots in it. Put down 2 storage chests.
One filters for wood. I fill up the other chest without a filter with stuff almost full.
I send all kinds of trash including wood. The logistics bots collect it from me and store it correctly.
As the other chest fills up (the unfiltered one) the logistics bots that are on their way stop
and hover above it. And a warning appears "Not enough logistics storage space".
The filtered storage chest only contains wood at this point (EDIT: and still has ample space for wood).

If I try to send further items to trash, not even the logistics bots start to move
and the stuff remains in my trash slots.

Also deconstruction bots just stop mid air if they can't find space in unfiltered chests.

xxx13232.PNG

Thanks for testing that. That is exactly how I would have expected it to behave.

Either I hit some weird condition that managed to break that behavior,... Or there was a bug when I did it and it has been fixed.

I am going to assume that it now works.

Will test it over the next week or two, as I am close to start my next and final vanilla game. In it I will intentionally initially setup fewer than needed "unfiltered" storage chests and see what happens. If garbage again starts showing up on my belts (fed by inserters from my filtered chests as my mechanism to return logistic trash to good use during the early game) I will know that I hit the weird condition, and if I get the error I will know that it is definitely fixed.

[WeirdConstructor]

If garbage again starts showing up on my belts (fed by inserters from my filtered chests as my mechanism to return logistic trash to good use during the early game) I will know that I hit the weird condition, and if I get the error I will know that it is definitely fixed.

Maybe, if you don't use mods as you say, you could provide the save game for others to check if the problem
persists on their machines too.

Generally I agree that filtered storage chests should not receive any other stuff. That defeats, as you said,
the complete purpose. The wiki also says, that it should behave the way as I observed in my tests.

Requester chests are different, as they actively request logistics bots to bring stuff from other chests (eg. storage chests).

Storage chests with filters are, as far as I can interpret from the explanation in the Wiki, perfect for the excess items
you pick up when deconstructing a belt manually or via personal deconstruction bots. And then for feeding them back
into your factory with inserters.