[0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[bobingabout]

Power 0.16.6:
Updated solar panel updates to use my library instead of table.insert to update recipes.
Added boiler and steam engine T5
Complete overhaul of Boiler, Steam engine, Heat exchanger and Steam turbines. See here for new stats
Substation 2 now costs Brass instead of Aluminium

[Light]

Well this update hit things harder than expected.

I've got a 7.6GW nuclear plant using Mk2 SE and Turbines which now plummets to 6.1GW. This build is perfected to the absolute decimal, and while I anticipated the update showing an overall improvement with minor redesign required, it's actually struggling to produce enough steam despite the numbers looking like it should be overproducing.

Could you please provide a list of all the old calculations alongside the new for all the changes to power? Something is clearly off but I can't tell what it is.

I should also mention that the steam engines don't seem to function when the steam is above 900 degrees, so you can't use Mk5 boilers without lower tiers to cool it down.

[Maglay]

Hi Bob,

the heat exchanger mk3 has a target temp of 1015, but the reactors and heat pipes can only reach 1000C max. Am I wrong here or is this an issue?
Since the heat pipe loose some temperature on the way, an even lower target temp would be required so that we do not have to attach the heat exchanger directly to the reactor. Or was this intended to make the reactor layouts more challenging?

Thanks for your awesome mods

[bobingabout]

Okay, going above 1000 was a good idea to make numbers nice and round, but a bad idea because of the 1000 degree limit... I did get boilers and steam engines to work simply by modifying the maximum temperature of steam, but to make Heat exchangers work would have meant modifying the reactor, and heat pipes, or making a MK2/3 version, and I don't feel like going down that path right now, so, new plan.

The new new MK3 is the old new MK2, the maximum water will be 765 degrees, which actually brings it close to the old MK3 of 750. though do note that where the old HEMK3 uses 22.8MW of power to heat the water, the new new one will only use 18MW, meaning you'll need more of them, but this is part of the re-alignment to the 1:2 ratio system I'm using for all steam power.

Here's my new numbers.

Code: Select all

SE1: 0.2kW * 60 * 0.5 * ( 165 -15) =   900kW
SE2: 0.2kW * 60 * 0.5 * ( 315 -15) =  1800kW
SE3: 0.2kW * 60 * 0.5 * ( 465 -15) =  2700kW
SE4: 0.2kW * 60 * 0.5 * ( 615 -15) =  3600kW
SE5: 0.2kW * 60 * 0.5 * ( 765 -15) =  4500kW

ST1: 0.2kW * 60 * 1.0 * ( 465 -15) =  5400kW
ST2: 0.2kW * 60 * 1.0 * ( 615 -15) =  7200kW
ST3: 0.2kW * 60 * 1.0 * ( 765 -15) =  9000kW

Code: Select all

       Old     Old New  New New
SE1:   900kW     900kW    900kW
SE2:  1688.5kW  1800kW   1800kW
SE3:  2760kW    3000kW   2700kW
SE4:  4147.2kW  4500kW   3600kW
SE5:            6000kW   4500kW

ST1:  5820kW    6000kW   5400kW
ST2:  7320kW    9000kW   7200kW
ST3:  8820kW   12000kW   9000kW

Code: Select all

B1:  E = 0.5, T =  165, P =  1800kW
B2:  E = 0.6, T =  315, P =  3600kW
B3:  E = 0.7, T =  465, P =  5400kW
B4:  E = 0.8, T =  615, P =  7200kW
B5:  E = 0.9, T =  765, P =  9000kW

HE1: E = 1.0, T =  465, P = 10800kW
HE2: E = 1.0, T =  615, P = 14400kW
HE3: E = 1.0, T =  765, P = 18000kW

Code: Select all

       Old     Old New  New New
B1:   1800kW    1800kW   1800kW
B2:   3200kW    3600kW   3600kW
B3:   4900kW    6000kW   5400kW
B4:   6950kW    9000kW   7200kW
B5:            12000kW   9000kW

HE1: 10000kW   12000kW  10800kW
HE2: 15800kW   18000kW  14400kW
HE3: 22800kW   24000kW  18000kW

Also note that nuclear water T1 is 465 degrees down from 500, so it's nerfed a little, steam turbines produce a little less electricity as a result, but the heat exchanger uses a little more heat, able to produce more water. it sort of meets in the middle to move towards the 1:2 ratio. (instead of about 3:5, or 2:3 that people like to use)

BTW, these ARE the calculations. a offshore pump gives 20 units of water per tick, or 1200 per second. a steam engine consumes 0.5 units of water per tick, and a steam turbine consumes 1 unit of water per tick, or 30 and 60 per second. water holds a heat capacity of 0.2kW per degree, and water starting temperature is 15 degrees, so to run the first equation through...
Steam engine 1:
0.2kW * 60 * 0.5 * ( 165 -15) = 900kW => 0.2 * 30 * 150 = 900 => 30kW of power per unit of water, 30 units of water per second = 900kW of power generated in the steam engine.
Boiler 1:
E = 0.5, T = 165, P = 1800kW
60 units per second will fuel 2 steam engines, or 1 steam turbine. we already know 30kW per unit of water. we also already know the target temperature of 165.
30kW * 60 = 1800kW so we set the boiler to 1.8MW.
but the game reports the fuel consumption, not the actual power that goes into the water. so we divide by efficiency.
1800kW / 0.5 = 3600kW of fuel consumed per second.

Then just run the same maths through all the other entities and you get my tables.


Also, for those who didn't notice, this new new system is basically just... 900kW per tier, double for boilers for that 1:2 ratio, then double everything again for nuclear stuff. that's 150 degrees per tier, with a starting point of 15.
The numbers looked close enough to how things were before this latest update, and to my original plan, that I just went with it.

[Erythion]

Hi, Bob, I'm not that sure Zelos has contacted you about this (beat him if he hasn't), but Omnicompression and Omnifluid can't handle the 1015 degrees steam.

[bobingabout]

Hi, Bob, I'm not that sure Zelos has contacted you about this (beat him if he hasn't), but Omnicompression and Omnifluid can't handle the 1015 degrees steam.

He's talking to me right now actually. This is partly what prompted me to go back and look at all the numbers again.

Anyway, just finishing things off and will upload shortly.

[ukezi]

according to the tooltip a offshore pump creates 1200 water/s, 20/tick

[bobingabout]

according to the tooltip a offshore pump creates 1200 water/s, 20/tick

Maybe it does, it's actually not that important for the calculations, just means you can run twice as many boilers and steam engines from it than I thought.

[Recon777]

1: On the topic of color consistency, it seems Bob's has done a pretty good job of advancing the sequence of yellow, red, blue, purple, green.

However, with assemblers, chem plants, and electrolysers, this is still not the case. Would it be a good idea to adjust these as well?


----------------------

2: With all pipes being one width now, is there any difference between the many kinds of pipe other than the underground length?

----------------------

3: I noticed the large area miners have a new model. Will there be a high res version to match the vanilla model?

[bobingabout]

1. That's on the table. some of the changes would be rather easy, but do keep in mind that the base assembling machines actually use 3 different models, so although I can just apply the mask to recolour 3, 5 and 6 on assembling machines, (4 is a custom recolour of 2), the electronic machines, and the chemical plants... The other assembling machines and electrolysers would be more difficult. there's 2 different models of electrolyser too, and I'd have to create a mask before I could use it to recolour them.

but yes, it's on the table.

2. They're used in different recipes, which was the main motivation for creating them, allowing you to place them in the world was secondary.
They also have better health based on their 5 tiers. (up from 4 tiers with the rework)

3. That wasn't me.

[Zyrconia]

Hi Bob,

I'm having an interesting problem: I'm playing with you belt and inserter overhaul (will come back alter with impressions) and filter inserters don't seem to register in the logistics network. I'm using early Angel's bots (I don't think those are the problems, they work for all items except for filter inserters) and using logistic conditions: insert a "filter inserter" into the network if there are less than 50. But this doesn't work.

As one can see in the screenshot, the assembler is ready to output but can't and the condition is not satisfied to allow output, even though I had 3 filters in the system, not 50.

If I pick up the inserter and put it down I think it works until it reaches 50 and then never activates again.

Thanks!

[bobingabout]

Hi Bob,

I'm having an interesting problem: I'm playing with you belt and inserter overhaul (will come back alter with impressions) and filter inserters don't seem to register in the logistics network. I'm using early Angel's bots (I don't think those are the problems, they work for all items except for filter inserters) and using logistic conditions: insert a "filter inserter" into the network if there are less than 50. But this doesn't work.

As one can see in the screenshot, the assembler is ready to output but can't and the condition is not satisfied to allow output, even though I had 3 filters in the system, not 50.

If I pick up the inserter and put it down I think it works until it reaches 50 and then never activates again.

Thanks!

I don't know of anything that should cause this issue. Especially with the fact that you're using just a standard yellow inserter there, they're not even edited base game inserters. (one of the few that isn't edited)
as far as the system is concerned, the filter inserter you're choosing as a condition is just a filter, nothing in my mod should effect what that does.

[DaleStan]

The inserter says "No [logistic] network in range". I'm wondering if it's something wrong with the network, rather than something wrong with the device. Do other nearby devices detect the logistic network? Does the [L] display show a logistic network?

[bobingabout]

I'm going to say you should probably defer to angel on this one. the orange area on the floor should be indicating the logistics zone, the network you're attempting to connect to, which would read logistic chests, however, you're not using a base game logistic chest, you're using something I don't recognise, which is likely related to your angel bots.

[Zyrconia]

The inserter says "No [logistic] network in range". I'm wondering if it's something wrong with the network, rather than something wrong with the device. Do other nearby devices detect the logistic network? Does the [L] display show a logistic network?

Wow, I can't believe I didn't notice that! It should be in the yellow logistics area.

I'm going to say you should probably defer to angel on this one. the orange area on the floor should be indicating the logistics zone, the network you're attempting to connect to, which would read logistic chests, however, you're not using a base game logistic chest, you're using something I don't recognise, which is likely related to your angel bots.

Thanks! I'll see what is going on with that logistic area. Those chests are green science requester chests.

[petrobi]

Hi "bobingabout"
I would like to ask you for you agreement.

I am preparing "Real_world_mod" for Factorio (latest version). I want to avoid incompatibility with loading many 'BIG' mods together (as we can see in Angels and bobs mod - same technology are useless or doubled), so i decided create totaly new mod folder with the best technology (i would like to use your graphics and graphics from Angels mods as well - i mean buildings, materials (icons) as is, only models ("entity" and .png files).

This mod should include also my recipes and items:
1) Menu - icons are sorted together with vanilla factorio (no vanilla menu and Bobs menu separate)
2) Real ores (Hematite, bornite, sfalrite - real world ores, sorting and using)
3) Nuclear laboratory and uranium and thorium new processing, new fluids, new chemicals
4) New types of nuclear reactor (fuel - uranium, plutonium, fusion)
5) Some new electricity (solar panel MK4 with using termoelectric generator etc.)
6) Some new electronic (sollar cells, optics, magnets, heaters for el. furnaces)
7) Ore crusher, simple distilers for using only pure water from see water, liquification laboratory (liquid helium...)
8) Fusion reaction components (deuterium, tritium, helium...)
9) Milling tools, filters
10) Re-write module system (to module 8 only)
11) Gems are sorted in "sorter" and they are using for minerals extraction: diamond->milling tools, hand tool, Emerald-> berillium (neutron reflector, deflector for many nuclear reaction and bombs)...

These technologies are completed done and fully function on my computer only (it was spent about 6 months)

Therefore i would like to ask you about your agree with using your technology (files (above mentioned) copied to my folder).
I will take some months to completed this mod (i am waiting for 0.17 and update) and if you will have a time to participate, I will be glad.
Of course, if you will agree, your name will be write like a co-author in "info.json" file.

Thank you very much for understading

[bobingabout]

Hi "bobingabout"
I would like to ask you for you agreement.

I am preparing "Real_world_mod" for Factorio (latest version). I want to avoid incompatibility with loading many 'BIG' mods together (as we can see in Angels and bobs mod - same technology are useless or doubled), so i decided create totaly new mod folder with the best technology (i would like to use your graphics and graphics from Angels mods as well - i mean buildings, materials (icons) as is, only models ("entity" and .png files).

This mod should include also my recipes and items:
1) Menu - icons are sorted together with vanilla factorio (no vanilla menu and Bobs menu separate)
2) Real ores (Hematite, bornite, sfalrite - real world ores, sorting and using)
3) Nuclear laboratory and uranium and thorium new processing, new fluids, new chemicals
4) New types of nuclear reactor (fuel - uranium, plutonium, fusion)
5) Some new electricity (solar panel MK4 with using termoelectric generator etc.)
6) Some new electronic (sollar cells, optics, magnets, heaters for el. furnaces)
7) Ore crusher, simple distilers for using only pure water from see water, liquification laboratory (liquid helium...)
8) Fusion reaction components (deuterium, tritium, helium...)
9) Milling tools, filters
10) Re-write module system (to module 8 only)
11) Gems are sorted in "sorter" and they are using for minerals extraction: diamond->milling tools, hand tool, Emerald-> berillium (neutron reflector, deflector for many nuclear reaction and bombs)...

These technologies are completed done and fully function on my computer only (it was spent about 6 months)

Therefore i would like to ask you about your agree with using your technology (files (above mentioned) copied to my folder).
I will take some months to completed this mod (i am waiting for 0.17 and update) and if you will have a time to participate, I will be glad.
Of course, if you will agree, your name will be write like a co-author in "info.json" file.

Thank you very much for understading

This should probably have been sent to me in a note, or a new topic, but, here we go.

all the molecular structures are actually open licence images from the internet, so they're free to use.
there's a few more I haven't used that you listed, you just need to resize them down to 32x32.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3xvekst5a52j ... 8.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mt1sfd4kwoa86 ... 8.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/flmwowuw4a4jo ... 8.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p72w6uf8ysisl ... 8.png?dl=0

As for the other things, most of the icons should be available to use, however, it would be best if you gave me an itemised list of which ones you want to use, because not everything is by me. The Electrolysers, and Logistic zone expenaders for example were by Yuoki, and some of the other graphics... well, look through the bob graphics topics in here, they were donated by 3rd parties. The currently used Pipes and Logistic/Construction robots in the logistics mod were by Zombiee.

[awm23]

Hi! I'm playing Bob's mods without Angel's and here is a problem
i have spent more than 36 hrs in multiplayer to recognize there is no cobalt ore at all, lol, the only way to get it - add a cobalt ore from nickel mining. A recipe of advanced copper processing is also bugged: you can see it in craft menu but neither chemical nor metal mixing furnaces have this recipe.
Here is on a pic absence of cobalt ore in settings.

[coderpatsy]

Cobalt ore needs to be checked in mod settings if you want to get it that way. Dunno if that's intended.

[ukezi]

A recipe of advanced copper processing is also bugged: you can see it in craft menu but neither chemical nor metal mixing furnaces have this recipe.
Here is on a pic absence of cobalt ore in settings.

did you try the electrical chemical furnace?