[MOD 0.16.x, 0.17.x, 0.18.x, 1.1.x] SCTM

[Jugger]

While I can understand changes made in the last update, would it be possible to have an option to use the old values? I liked the values and the fact that researching was costly and prioritizing mattered. With the last update it's back to trivial values.
I can still change the values in the mod files myself, but it would mean doing manual change merges with each update while having a simple option in the mod would save me and possibly other people a lot of effort.

[mexmer]

While I can understand changes made in the last update, would it be possible to have an option to use the old values? I liked the values and the fact that researching was costly and prioritizing mattered. With the last update it's back to trivial values.
I can still change the values in the mod files myself, but it would mean doing manual change merges with each update while having a simple option in the mod would save me and possibly other people a lot of effort.

Well, it’s possible to put back old expensive recipes, but are you really sure? I meean, you just can dowgrade to .45 for old values to check it out,

There was like 150 times higher price for blue science pack with old values. Since every component had 2.5 price increase, and since some were in cascade it got multiplied ...

I think you should check first with previous version values(0.16.45), my idea was to have scaling increase in science pack price, but no more than 10x for lategame packs. But my caclculations were wrong and costs were absurd. Also mind with normal marathon setting you need 4 times more science packs for research, and you can use multipliers on top of that,

[Jugger]

While I can understand changes made in the last update, would it be possible to have an option to use the old values? I liked the values and the fact that researching was costly and prioritizing mattered. With the last update it's back to trivial values.
I can still change the values in the mod files myself, but it would mean doing manual change merges with each update while having a simple option in the mod would save me and possibly other people a lot of effort.

Well, it’s possible to put back old expensive recipes, but are you really sure? I meean, you just can dowgrade to .45 for old values to check it out,

There was like 150 times higher price for blue science pack with old values. Since every component had 2.5 price increase, and since some were in cascade it got multiplied ...

I think you should check first with previous version values(0.16.45), my idea was to have scaling increase in science pack price, but no more than 10x for lategame packs. But my caclculations were wrong and costs were absurd. Also mind with normal marathon setting you need 4 times more science packs for research, and you can use multipliers on top of that,

I'm currently playing 2 games using those values - one of them multiplayer and we're fine with what the values used to be. I can understand people not wanting to slog through the game, but for us these values gave us real reason to build big, optimize and think about how to spend resources unlike with the new values. Sure we can just downgrade (which we have), but I'm afraid we would miss out on all the cool new things that you would add in the future.

I think the new values might be a good default, but I would really like to use the old ones.

[minno]

There's also the "extended" research cost multiplier, which adds around a 2x cost increase for all technologies compared to the "normal" setting (and 25x for infinite research), and up to a 20x increase compared to "noadjustment". That's on top of the configurable (4x by default) increase from the base game's difficulty setting.

Going by the recipe costs I collected in my previous post, the old costs were around 10x as high as the normal mode ones, and up to 30x on certain components. Now they're around 2x-4x. So if you increase the tech price multiplier by 10x, that will get you fairly close to the old prices, but with more labs needed since the extra cost is coming from more packs instead of more expensive packs.

(also, XKCD 1172)

[Jugger]

There's also the "extended" research cost multiplier, which adds around a 2x cost increase for all technologies compared to the "normal" setting (and 25x for infinite research), and up to a 20x increase compared to "noadjustment". That's on top of the configurable (4x by default) increase from the base game's difficulty setting.

Going by the recipe costs I collected in my previous post, the old costs were around 10x as high as the normal mode ones, and up to 30x on certain components. Now they're around 2x-4x. So if you increase the tech price multiplier by 10x, that will get you fairly close to the old prices, but with more labs needed since the extra cost is coming from more packs instead of more expensive packs.

Currently playing on "normal" SCTM settings with no flat multiplier. I was considering playing around with the settings to get close to the values from 16.45, it's just that I found those values suitable for my taste so it would be easier for me if I could keep them.

I also liked the large jump in material quantity requirements between research tiers, which no longer seems to be as drastic.

IIRC these changes were introduced by mexmer in May and while at first they seemed brutal, over time I realized they make the game more enjoyable for me. Didn't manage to get past blue science packs yet, so it might get silly later in the game, but according to what I've seen so far it's probably manageable.

(also, XKCD 1172)

That's quite fitting. But I guess it's not too uncommon for people to like things that are bugs or design flaws in the eyes of the devs.

[Redstylt]

A little type fault

sct_bug.PNG (108.78 KiB) Viewed 7003 times

[mexmer]

A little type fault

sct_bug.PNG

yes, someone already posted it on github, will be fixed within next version. tahnks.

[Gaist]

Keen to try this out in tandem with a MoreScience & AngelBob setup, but getting this error on startup (which persists even if omitting the MoreScience + SCTM crossover mod.)

[mexmer]

Keen to try this out in tandem with a MoreScience & AngelBob setup, but getting this error on startup (which persists even if omitting the MoreScience + SCTM crossover mod.)

alien lab should be enabled only if bobenemies are present and relic drop from aliens is enabled, can you post your list of mods with versions and settings file?

[Gaist]

alien lab should be enabled only if bobenemies are present and relic drop from aliens is enabled, can you post your list of mods with versions and settings file?

lovely_santa was kind enough to take a look on the More Science end after I uploaded our modlist + settings--and forwarded those on to the github for reference. Off the top of my head from what you're saying, I wonder if it's because we left out one of the four Bob's Enemies settings?



Edit: Confirmed, enabling colored artifacts as well resolved the error.

[mexmer]

alien lab should be enabled only if bobenemies are present and relic drop from aliens is enabled, can you post your list of mods with versions and settings file?

lovely_santa was kind enough to take a look on the More Science end after I uploaded our modlist + settings--and forwarded those on to the github for reference. Off the top of my head from what you're saying, I wonder if it's because we left out one of the four Bob's Enemies settings?



Edit: Confirmed, enabling colored artifacts as well resolved the error.

hmm, i will change the check then, i though i have it same as bob in his mod, when enabling alien lab, but looks there is difference, thanks for letting me know.

[Delanii]

Hello mexmer,
first of all, thank you for an amazing mod! I would like to ask you, if you could elaborate or direct me to post where are information about compatibility of your mod with other big mods. Ive seen the first post, but how about combination of those mods?
Currently I am trying to start a playthrough with most of big mods combined together (Bobs, Clowns, Angels, PyMods, Yuoki, SpaceX, Expanded Rocket Payloads, currently also consulting with KorGgenT about adding his Thaumaturgy) but sadly I am unable to use your mod in combination, probably, with PyMods.
Thanks a lot, delanii
PS: Also shoutout to kingarthur and SuperSandro, making compatibility mods for Py and ERP.

[mexmer]

Yuoki is planned, but have not done anything with it yet.

Py in combination with other mods is hassle in general, and i don't plan to support any weird combination of py with other mods,
standalone py should be working (have not checked it after adding pyores tho')
other standalone mods, that should be working
aai
angels
bobs
omni
Xander

combinations i have tested
angels + bobs + aai
angels + bobs + omni (when adding aai, there was some issue with unresearchable part of tree)
angels + bobs + Xander
bobs + py

[Delanii]

Thank you for your reply.
I have to settle with marathon then, or reduce my modpack. I try out combinations you wrote about.

[mexmer]

version 0.17 is up, but it has certainly lot of limitations
1) it's only been tested with vanilla
2) it's missing tweaks for other mods (that were supported in 0.16)
3) it's missing migrations (eg. loading 0.16 might crash game, or do weird stuff)

[kenlon]

2) it's missing tweaks for other mods (that were supported in 0.16)

Ah. I assume this would be why when I put SCT and Trainwreck's Circuit Processing alongside AngelBob's in 0.17, the basic lab wants circuits that you can't make at the start?
Any idea on when compatibility tweaks might be updated, or should I start messing with my local copy of the mod?

[mexmer]

new version is up with fixed migration scripts (still vanilla only), and fixed loading when military is set to tier3

[mexmer]

0.17.2 released now with support restored for aai, bobs mods and angels mods

todo
py
xander
omnisuite
....
all other stuff i planned

[Dechou]

Got that error loading your updated mod with bobangel, just a small tweak I guess.
Thanks for your work and your amazing mod .

[mexmer]

Got that error loading your updated mod with bobangel, just a small tweak I guess.
Thanks for your work and your amazing mod .

can you post mod settings? because i can't replicate this.