[MOD 0.16.x] MadClown01's Science

[aklesey1]

Interesting idea but with Angels, Bobs, Bob's Extended and Omnimods, this mod is overpowered.

I think the main issue here is that bob's extended and omniresearch both want to make SPs quite punishing, and you're combining the two here, so they're somewhat insane

...altough omnimods + pymods is still more insane with wood/glass/water needed for early SPs.

Oh dude don't tell him about py suite combined with omnisuite - that's too badass too hardcore

[Sir_Cherry]

Interesting idea but with Angels, Bobs, Bob's Extended and Omnimods, this mod is overpowered.

I think the main issue here is that bob's extended and omniresearch both want to make SPs quite punishing, and you're combining the two here, so they're somewhat insane

...altough omnimods + pymods is still more insane with wood/glass/water needed for early SPs.

Oh dude don't tell him about py suite combined with omnisuite - that's too badass too hardcore

I tried it. And I'm interested, but I don't think it'd be a good idea to install pysuite 60 hours in. I'd have to rebuild everything.
I'll use it when I finish with the current game

[MadClown01]

Ok, trying to balance this stuff without ever actually playing an Omni game is giving me a headache

I am starting an omni playthrough, and in the mean time I've taken Sir_Cherry's suggested modification and added it to my code.

I believe that my mod is now currently quite balanced for a pure Angel's playthrough.

Omni is going to be hard work. I'm probably going to add another fluid box to the facilities, just so I can add more complexity to recipes.

Thanks for the inputs, and for calling out the overpoweredness!

[jessefjxm]

Just found that new recipes of science pack don't support productivity modules This would be a really bad news compared to vanilla recipes

[MadClown01]

Just found that new recipes of science pack don't support productivity modules This would be a really bad news compared to vanilla recipes

Thanks for the report, will fix asap

EDIT: Fixed

[aklesey1]

Hi, MadClow01 can ask one wish?
Can ur recipes for science pack be compatible with this mod https://mods.factorio.com/mod/KaoExtended
This mod uses so called "technology component pack" - each pack uses one of few previous versions of the packs to use it in progression in crating process for next science pack

The mod itself is designed to seriously complicate the process and to stimulate the use of a variety of materials

My wish to u is to adapt this "components" to each of ur new recipes for science packs

I understand that this is not an easy and difficult wish for ur new science pack (can some game balance issues) - bcuz there is seen a very serious gap between the changed recipes and ur recipes

[MadClown01]

...

Added to the todo list

[arbarbonif]

Having a weird bug with making science packs from liquids. For some reason If I attach the pipes, then select the recipe (or change the recipe) the pipes don't link up. Picking up and replacing the pipes with the recipe in place fixes it and they work fine. Graphically and functionally you can see the pipes sitting next to the entry ports, unconnected; they snap to if the recipe is selected before the pipes are placed tho.

[MadClown01]

Having a weird bug with making science packs from liquids. For some reason If I attach the pipes, then select the recipe (or change the recipe) the pipes don't link up. Picking up and replacing the pipes with the recipe in place fixes it and they work fine. Graphically and functionally you can see the pipes sitting next to the entry ports, unconnected; they snap to if the recipe is selected before the pipes are placed tho.

Funnily enough I'm having the same issue. I'm going to try playing around with shifting the pipe inputs and see if I can make things work better

[Kubimate]

Bob's mods have changed colour codes for science packs, now it's

• YELLOW RED blue purple pink GREEN white

It's an easy fix, I tried it myself - just swap icon names around... OR maybe not so easy, because you'll have to make it enabled only when bob's are detected

[MadClown01]

Bob's mods have changed colour codes for science packs, now it's

• YELLOW RED blue purple pink GREEN white

It's an easy fix, I tried it myself - just swap icon names around... OR maybe not so easy, because you'll have to make it enabled only when bob's are detected

Fixed

[orzelek]

Bob's mods have changed colour codes for science packs, now it's

• YELLOW RED blue purple pink GREEN white

It's an easy fix, I tried it myself - just swap icon names around... OR maybe not so easy, because you'll have to make it enabled only when bob's are detected

You know that this is optional and can be disabled in settings?
It looks very strange if you played game for long time and whole color set has been modified

[Kubimate]

Fixed

Thanks for the quick fix

You know that this is optional and can be disabled in settings?
It looks very strange if you played game for long time and whole color set has been modified

Yup, I'm just one of those people that found this change to be more logical. I got used to it in a few hours.

[steinio]

Hi,

made a german (locale\de) locale for this mod:

Clowns-Science.cfg

(1.42 KiB) Downloaded 196 times

[Light]

Just noticed that the particle accelerators are giving omni science packs which naturally do nothing without omni.

I'm also wondering about the balance of the research facilities, as not only are the two fluids far easier to make then normal science but it's cheap and fast in comparison. I feel there needs to be a catalyst (or several) included with the fluids that helps to match the tier of materials usually available around that point in time, plus a much higher creation time for higher tier packs to better match the creation time from start to finish of regular packs. (24 seconds is slower than red/green but much faster than all the materials used to make blue.)

This is due to my family game which has relied mostly on research facilities for blue science since it makes the tech easily accessible due to less research required and no higher end intermediates. The only thing we need to do is be patient and keep the steam engines fueled up so we eventually get plenty to work with. We don't have electronic circuit boards or batteries made and yet we have a few thousand blue packs in a chest ready to go. Were it not for the intense research multiplier we use, I'd imagine we could use them to research everything rather rapidly to skip a tier. For the moment they've given us a nice jumpstart but I fear we may become too reliant on their use to save resources and time in the long run, which kind of undermines the point of multiple pack recipes you've added as well. Longer creation time and catalysts would shift the priority of the facility to being a supplement instead of a replacement of science production, which I believe was your intention with it.

[igorhgf]

Today, bob updated his mods and deleted electrum. Angel's already updated to cover this changes, but i still have problems loading Clowns-Science.

[credomane]

Today, bob updated his mods and deleted electrum. Angel's already updated to cover this changes, but i still have problems loading Clowns-Science.

Like you said, Bob announced that electrum would be getting removed a while ago because nothing used it in his mods. Well, one of the solar panels did, previously, but it got moved to gold-plate.

I've attached a fixed "Clowns-Science_1.0.5.zip" to this post. I followed bob's precedent and changed all electrum-alloy to gold-plate. There was only once instance of this. The Clown's alternative recipe for Production Science.

[MadClown01]

Just noticed that the particle accelerators are giving omni science packs which naturally do nothing without omni.

I'm also wondering about the balance of the research facilities, as not only are the two fluids far easier to make then normal science but it's cheap and fast in comparison. I feel there needs to be a catalyst (or several) included with the fluids that helps to match the tier of materials usually available around that point in time, plus a much higher creation time for higher tier packs to better match the creation time from start to finish of regular packs. (24 seconds is slower than red/green but much faster than all the materials used to make blue.)

Hi Light, thanks for the suggestion. I'll rebalance the pack times. You only should see the omni science packs if you have some omni mods installed?

Today, bob updated his mods and deleted electrum. Angel's already updated to cover this changes, but i still have problems loading Clowns-Science.

Fixed

[Light]

Just noticed that the particle accelerators are giving omni science packs which naturally do nothing without omni.

I'm also wondering about the balance of the research facilities, as not only are the two fluids far easier to make then normal science but it's cheap and fast in comparison. I feel there needs to be a catalyst (or several) included with the fluids that helps to match the tier of materials usually available around that point in time, plus a much higher creation time for higher tier packs to better match the creation time from start to finish of regular packs. (24 seconds is slower than red/green but much faster than all the materials used to make blue.)

Hi Light, thanks for the suggestion. I'll rebalance the pack times. You only should see the omni science packs if you have some omni mods installed?

I forgot that I use omniscience to exponentially increase science requirements to extreme marathon levels. Although, the mod check should include the main omni mod which uses these packs just to be sure they're not added for those who can't.

The rebalance is most certainly required after I created the Mk2 building which gives x2 speed at only x1.5 power. This in itself also needs a tweak given the major bonus for little power use, as six Mk2 has the speed of twelve Mk1 but only 36MW compared to 48MW. This would normally be flipped as a much high power cost for higher speed (and less footprint) is the norm across the board. It should more realistically be x2 power for x1.5 speed, which with a longer recipe time doesn't negate the value of a faster machine while also maintaining a more natural balance.

We have not reached the point of particle accelerators yet to comment on their balance in detail, but I can already tell they need a major recipe cost increase given nuclear power + efficiency modules easily negate its only drawback for VERY fast and almost free science. It's like a megabase designed for science creation condensed in a tiny building, so it needs that longer recipe time for the recipes that give higher end packs but slightly shorter for the easier and fewer science packs. Space science being made by this building would be less controversial if it was far longer to create compared to rockets without a major beacon setup and/or nuclear reactors to fuel a good dozen accelerators or more. The percentage should still remain since no catalyst is being used and thus can be considered "unstable" when using raw electricity.

[GrumpyJoe]

Found a bug

Im using all* the packs in my base, mostly 33/33/33%, green + pink 50/50, just for the sake of using them evenly. Not interested in balancing out the ore sorting so it could run hands free.
Calculating huge numbers shows that they are pretty balanced in raw mats (like plates and circuits), i dont mind a few % off and im not calculating raw ore.
Awesome stuff there!

So... cant believe that noone has noticed that before:
Military II cant use productivity modules
Probably the last i´ll build, so no hurry, but my iron sheet demand just skyrocketed


*I think the liquids/gases are too easy, so I´m excluding them.
Btw, when i used them to quick tec up to infinite tec or before spacex 2 weeks ago, i also noticed that weird pipe connection bug. Picking them up and place again worked, but from the first 2 assemblers BPing them around, bots screwed up placement. So it seems, not saying its actually the bot´s fault.

Hope i can get this base "finished" soon and make a tour, your mods deserve more attention!


A little motivation for you. All 3 red science packs. Creative mode test build, bobs MK8 modules, 10k SPM
Yes, i just noticed one AM was missing modules....

MC all red science.png (607.61 KiB) Viewed 8107 times