About cliffs

[Jap2.0]

It would also be unimaginably hard to implement I believe.

Age of Empires 2 did this. With moving units (and towers). In 1998.

Also, how are you coming to the conclusion that that's the only possible explanation for their range?

[Gergely]

It would also be hard to implement I believe.

Age if Empires 2 did this. With moving units (and towers). In 1998.

Also, how are you coming to the conclusion that that's the only possible explanation for their range?

First off, Factorio is an overly optimized game. Which means it has a very complex data structure that always makes just the right things available for a thread to process.

There is no such game as "Age if Empires 2"

Bullets travel close to the speed of sound, so they should be able to travel much further than the in-game range of gun turrets. The only explanation is that the turrets have sensors that limit this range. Elevation should never affect that in this case.

Edit: Did you mean this?
In that game, (which I actually did play) elevation is not just visual, each position has an elevation value making it much much easier to do something like that. You can determine if a spot is in range by calculating the distance in 3D space.

The Factorio developers have no reason to implement an extra value per tile. In fact, they have more reasons not to. Combat is not a core element of the game.

[_shifty]

I disagree.
Turrets are not actually limited by how far they can shoot. They are limited by their sensor instead.
This change makes no sense. I mean, these are gun turrets and there can be only one reason they can't reach far.
It would also be unimaginably hard to implement I believe.

idk about it being "unimaginably hard". what leads you to believe that this would be hard to implement? to be honest, this is one of the easier changes i could imagine anyone making to the game. we already have buff's and minus' to entities based on their proximity to others.
And as far is this making no sense, again, i think it makes perfect sense. you put a turret up high, it can see (or sense) farther, you place it at the foot of the cliff, you would'nt expect it to be able to pop a target 30 feet over and past the cliff. makes plenty of sense to me

[_shifty]

yea it sounds like you WANT to sound like you know what you're talking about, but you really dont. but this would be an EASY change to the game WITHOUT adding map-wide height scores or anything like that. beacons add buffs to things, no reason a cliff cant add to range. or subtract. or whatever.

[Gergely]

Sorry.

I thought it is nearly impossible to implement without impacting the game performance too much.

And I still think that.

[vanatteveldt]

yea it sounds like you WANT to sound like you know what you're talking about, but you really dont. but this would be an EASY change to the game WITHOUT adding map-wide height scores or anything like that. beacons add buffs to things, no reason a cliff cant add to range. or subtract. or whatever.

In the simplest version, giving turrets an overall range boost provided they are directly on the "top" side of a cliff should be easy. Giving it only for bullets than go 'down' the cliff would be a lot harder, I think, as every turret would get a weird non-circular shape depending on the # and direction of cliffs. Maybe something intermediate like a "top" cliff gives a range bonus 45 degrees centered on the cliff to a turret standing right besides it, and a likewise penalty for the 'bottom' cliff.

But IMHO, this is way less important than fixing the overall occurrence of cliffs. They already give a pretty good defensive boost by being indestructible and often giving natural choke points, so range would be a nice bonus but it is less important than somewhat sane placing.

[Gergely]

It is simply because there is no "height" in Factorio. It is a 100% 2D game and cliffs are just illusions. (Effectively walls.)

If the game is 3D (because it uses 3D coordinate system, not 3D graphics) then it is way easier to do, since you can perform calculations in 3D space.

[vanatteveldt]

It is simply because there is no "height" in Factorio. It is a 100% 2D game and cliffs are just illusions. (Effectively walls.)

If the game is 3D (because it uses 3D coordinate system, not 3D graphics) then it is way easier to do, since you can perform calculations in 3D space.

did you actually read my reply?

Cliffs have a visual "top" and "bottom". You don't need a height map to give a boost to every turret standing directly next to the 'top' side of a cliff. Giving the boost for only the side facing the cliff is slightly more complex as the result will be non-circular, but taking only the cardinal directions the range could just be split into 4 quarters and you get a boost / penalty in the quarter the cliff is at. You don't get a boost/penalty if not directly next to the cliff, for a second cliff, etc etc. No 3D coords needed... Is this solution perfect? No. Is it implementable? Hell yeah

[_shifty]

Is it implementable? Hell yeah

somethin just like this?

[Gergely]

Is it implementable? Hell yeah

somethin just like this?

IMAGE

Well, yeah. It is doable.