Reasonable enough. Admittedly the Fission reactor is kinda important, but ok.thereaverofdarkness wrote:Comments on balance:
Now that I've had a chance to try all of the generators (tier 1 and 2 anyway), I feel I have enough experience to comment on the balance of the generators.
Yea. Its hard to balance different Modes of power generation. Look at the arguments between Solar and Steam engines.Firstly, I feel that the solar panels are too powerful compared to the others. With the fairly large storage that batteries have, unless the player had a mod that made nights very long, the brief time that the solar panels don't work would not strongly affect their overall efficacy. I am currently playing with 60x day length, so the dark period is almost three hours, with the full dark of night lasting nearly an hour. With no other generators installed, I can run my batteries out at night but they last for a pretty substantial fraction of it as long as I'm not in combat getting my shields charged. Actuators don't drain the batteries that much if I have a good actuator to battery ratio and am not running back and forth all the time.
The thing I find I really don't like is having to "Hot-swap" modules. Swap out solar panels at night, or conduits between base and fighting. There isn't really any workaround for that though.
I play with 3-4x longer nights, but 60x sounds... Interesting.... Would have interesting effects on Solar panel vs Steam for sure.
Hmm. You are probably right with that. The inefficiency was because I didn't want you to refuel once, and then never again. Might have gone too far admittedly.The burner generator is very lackluster considering how late it is unlocked, and how expensive it is to make. It generates the same power per space as the solar panels. If I were doing a lot of combat at night I might want it, but in practice I'll do my hunting in the day and stay in base where my lights are at night, meaning I'll be using conduits instead. Even if I did want to do combat at night, I'd want to rely on something more powerful than this generator. If it were the only source of power I had, I'd probably sit in base charging my batteries, then swap the generators for shields before going into combat. That would work better than relying on that pitiful output to charge my shields. I also felt the efficiency is in practice too low. I agree it should be lower than the burner generator structure (25%), but while using Realistic Power (which has reduced fuel values), I had 3 stacks of solid fuel go out in just a few minutes, and it didn't even charge my batteries halfway. So I might increase the efficiency as well.
Yea, Thats why they (and a bunch of others) are tiny. Always hated that only the T1 solar panels in vanillla were 1x1, and they were almost completely worthless.The conduit is a little weak, but really only in comparison to the solar panels. I think it is in a good spot and the solar panels actually need to be nerfed. Once I finally got the conduit working, I quickly found it was nice to slip into any leftover gaps in my equipment, and even just 2-3 of them could charge my batteries faster than they got depleted while running around working on my base. They're pretty good for a starter generator.
That said, given their restriction of in-base only, I had to prevent them from being effective in combat, so added the shield restriction. Mainly because as they were, I tended to just drag a line of power poles behind me.
True. It is comparable to the burner generator, and stronger during the day. I wish I could have made it produce power at night as well.The tier 2 solar panel isn't enough of an upgrade to justify its larger size. That monster is difficult to fit into earlier ranks of armor, so I often find myself fully capable of producing them yet I simply prefer the tier 1 variant. I like that it's a small bonus because that's more realistic for solar panels, but maybe it could be increased a bit, or the size made easier to use. Perhaps a 2x4 would be nice, instead of 3x5. Or maybe make the 1x3 the tier 2 and make tier 1 a 1x1. I feel like solar panels would be a great thing to stick into extra gaps you have, and it's frustrating having gaps that I have nothing good to put into.
I actually think making them 1x5 instead might work. Keep the flatness for easier placement.
Hmm. True enough. It was a compromise because I kept nerfing/buffing conduits.The tier 2 conduit looks strong yet very large. I haven't unlocked it yet but I'm skeptical I'd actually want to use it. It has an excellent power rating per square, but I don't need that much power in my base and it's not going to work very well in combat, not only because it's a conduit but also because of how much space it takes up. But I might be able to make it work for turret creeping as an early version of the fission generator. Or maybe I'd plug it in to charge the batteries really fast and then remove it. I wouldn't say it's a bad module, just perhaps a bit redundant and likely to not get used much. I wouldn't mind using the tier 1 conduit up into the end game.
Well, if you haven't tested it, Whoknows. XDThe fission generator is brilliant! I haven't unlocked it yet but I think it'll definitely see use in my upper ranks of power armor. I can't yet comment on its power or fuel efficiency, so maybe I'll make another comment after I have started playing with it. I suspect I might disagree with the efficiency--low is definitely good, but 5% might be too low.
Vanilla Nuclear power is kinda rediculous once you get the korinov process (or whatever it was called) going. This used to use Alien artifacts instead, which made like 3 fuel cubes and lasted around 3 minutes each. Or something, Can't recall.
Also its at least somewhat a legacy of my 50x power values in armor. Will proably revisit that stuff again. I just don't like the whole, Refuel once, never again.
Yea. Will certainly make that earlier.- - - - - - - - - -
Here I will suggest new values for the generators:
Burner Generator tier 1 - unlocked earlier, with the other modules
2x2, 100kW, 15% efficiency
One of the serious restrictions I work under is that I don't HAVE tall models to use. The batteries, as they were before, were themselves a huge stretch, and I am not an artist at all.
Burner Generator tier 2 - unlock and price up where yours is currently
2x3, 240kW, 15% efficiency - need more tall shapes, too many wide shapes
But yes, a tier might be sensible.
Semi-Conducting Conduit tier 2 - possible side-grade to the super-conducting conduit
Yea. That might be reasonable. Would have to split the two up in code, but can probably do that.Super-Conducting Conduit - change to maintain 25% rate in combat, gives it a combat purpose to justify its large size
At 25% rate in combat, it's still worse per square than the tier 1 burner generator while you're in combat, but it has the advantage that it doesn't burn fuel at low efficiency, and can be useful in a situation where you are frequently going between power grid and combat, such as when trying to build defenses at the fringe of a biter base, or if you are getting a lot of attacks and don't have all your turrets set up yet.
One thing about solar panels is that I find 3x as powerful is good for vanilla, to make them useful. Dropping that to 1.5x as powerful hurts. Still, I agree they are somewhat more powerful than they ought to be. Probably drop it from 75 to 60kW at least.
Idea 1 for solar panels - original size
Solar Panel tier 1
3x1, 45kW (15kW/sq)
5x1 instead, 110kW maybe. More efficient, and only somewhat less convinient.Solar Panel tier 2
5x3, 330kW (22kW/sq)
1x1 solar panels aren't as much fun Still, maybe. I tried to not make too many modules however. Shields were especially bad in my initial planning stage.Idea 2 for solar panels - smaller panels
Solar Panel tier 1
Solar Panel tier 2
2x2, 64kW (16kW/sq)
Solar Panel tier 3?
4x2, 160kW (20kW/sq)
And squarile solar panels just feel wrong to me now. I love the flat varients I made.
Will certainly consider at least.
Yea. Those T1 shields are there mainly so you can not turret creep, and be able to take the unavoidable hits from spitters/worms early on. Not really combat rated, just there for a bit of extra health. Its more a transition stage.- - - - - - - - - -
As for the other modules, I haven't used a lot of them, but the shields, exoskeletons, and night vision visor all seem well balanced. The tier 1 shields at first look too weak to be worth using until you realize that what they provide is regeneration rate. Tier 2 shields are great for getting more shield hit points, but due to their lower efficiency there is some purpose for using tier 1 shields. I'm generally happy to use tier 2, however. The tiny actuators are great for slipping into early modular armor, but I managed to squeeze two exoskeletons into my power armor mk 1 and still have room for shields, batteries, conduits, night vision, and the large solar panel. It doesn't have much shield strength but it's not really for combat.
Added a lower tier exoskeletons because can't fit them in basic armor, or rather can, but certainly can't POWER them. 25-8 = 17, 17*10 = 170, costs 200/sec, so even with nothing but solar panels, can't power them. Urgh.
Never touched nightvision, don't really plan to.
True that. I suppose I was running under the idea that vanilla knew what it was doing. Notable, vanilla doubled in size per tier. I followed that, except only went up by 25% for T3 and T4 (roughly).I do feel that the grid size increases too much over the course of time. The 5x5 modular armor is so small it really makes you have to choose what's important to you. The upgrade to 7x7 gives me a lot more freedom. I know it won't be much with bigger high-tier modules, but it's pretty comfortable already at the low end. Modular armor mk 2's 10x10 grid seems larger than anything should have. Here's the grid sizes I would suggest: 5x5, 7x7, 8x8, 9x9, 10x10. This actually shrinks Mk II grid size, which is good because it was really too large. 8x8 easily fits a fission generator or two plus enough shields and personal defense modules to become a walking tank. Can't fit your exoskeletons and roboports in there at the same time? That's the point of making choices.
Smoothing that out might be sensible, and T2 vanilla was kinda endgame, so it was excessive. Hmm. Will consider that.
Bobs mod did something similar I recall. Went from green tint to shallow yellow tint (I think) to no tint.
I'd like to end on two module suggestions, though I don't know if either one is possible to make.
Tier 2 Night Vision Visor
The idea would be to make the tier 1 version only partially light the night, while tier 2 is higher tech, larger, and costs more power but gives full-luminosity night vision. Perhaps it is also less de-saturated, so you can see colors more easily with night vision. Some players might want the more expensive module, others might feel satisfied with the tier 1. My main purpose for suggesting this is that the night vision visor seems too easy for how strong it is.
That, I have no idea how to do at all. Same with some other ideas I had but couldn't implement.All-Terrain Actuator
Like the exoskeleton, however instead of increasing your speed by a percentage of its net value, this module would increase it by a percentage of its base value. The result is that it's less effective on fast terrain and more effective on slow terrain. Players who spend a lot of time in their paved base or who build roads between bases would prefer the exoskeleton. Players like myself who are playing on rail world and finding themselves constantly bogged down by sand or snow would prefer the ATA.
Will certainly consider all of that. Does seem like well thought out feedback and all.