[0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[ukezi]

CuW composites are used where the combination of high heat resistance, high electrical and thermal conductivity, and low thermal expansion are needed. Some of the applications are in electric resistance welding, as electrical contacts, and as heat sinks. As contact material, the composite is resistant to erosion by electric arc. WCu alloys are also used in electrodes for electrical discharge machining[2] and electrochemical machining.[3]

Copper-Tungsten looks great for that component.

[cartmen180]

- Nickel plate? Not very advanced, but not used anywhere else. (Maybe also a subject to remove?)

Eh... never heard of nitinol I guess, lol

[jodokus31]

OK, checked the tree, and seems Tungsten will be matererial of choice, there are only 3 materials at that level, titanium, tungsten and ceramic.

titanium is overused, and ceramic doesn't exactly sit in there. aluminium in the end is just that cheap to produce, that doesn't fit tier.

edit. will go with copper-tungsten, which is also used in other hightech components.

I think, thats a good choice.

- Nickel plate? Not very advanced, but not used anywhere else. (Maybe also a subject to remove?)

Eh... never heard of nitinol I guess, lol

I never played bobs only guess, i'm too much used to angels, that i didnt consider, that nickel plate might be used for regular alloy smelting.
With angel smelting, I get nitinol from nickel and titanium ingots, not plates. Nickel plates are only used here for some roboport stuff iirc.

[mexmer]

@bobiangbout looks like your assembly mod does weird things to technology tree.
when mod is installed, search in technology tree doesn't see advanced material processing 2 and 3, and neither whatever is unlocked by that.

and i'm talking about search, not technology tree itself, because technologies are there, and are researchable, just search does not work.

by removing your mods i narowed it down to bobassembly, when i remove that one, search is working again.

without assembly search looks like this


with assembly, it's broken like this


when i was checking, if QL bio is researchable (because it's needed for copper-tungsten), i could not find it out in tech tree, but it turned out, it was there (it's under advanced material 2, when SCT is installed), just your mod broke search.

[bobingabout]

@bobiangbout looks like your assembly mod does weird things to technology tree.
when mod is installed, search in technology tree doesn't see advanced material processing 2 and 3, and neither whatever is unlocked by that.

and i'm talking about search, not technology tree itself, because technologies are there, and are researchable, just search does not work.

by removing your mods i narowed it down to bobassembly, when i remove that one, search is working again.

without assembly search looks like this


with assembly, it's broken like this


when i was checking, if QL bio is researchable (because it's needed for copper-tungsten), i could not find it out in tech tree, but it turned out, it was there (it's under advanced material 2, when SCT is installed), just your mod broke search.

I don't think that's search specific, I think if you were to actually go down the list and look without filtering first through search, it would still be missing.

because, this:

Code: Select all

data.raw.technology["advanced-material-processing-2"].upgrade = true

It's just the way upgrade technologies work, you can only see the base level if none are researched, or the highest tier researched if you've done research.

[gaelyte]

I was playing with my robotic attack drones today, attacking some bases that destroyed a part of my factory, when I saw two things :
- When they were all attacking an elemental base(that as 50% defense against laser, so it was really long to destroy it), a few bitters attacked my drones, and... They didn't hit back, and continued to shoot.
- After all the bases were destroyed, they all moved in different directions, making difficult the recovering of my drones.

So, do you think it's possible to change the AI to have priorities (bitter>spitters>bases) and can change target? For the recovering, can you make an item that regroups all the nearby robotic attack drone?

[mexmer]

...

I don't think that's search specific, I think if you were to actually go down the list and look without filtering first through search, it would still be missing.

because, this:

Code: Select all

data.raw.technology["advanced-material-processing-2"].upgrade = true

It's just the way upgrade technologies work, you can only see the base level if none are researched, or the highest tier researched if you've done research.

whatever is the cause, it just creates problem with search in research, you can't even find what you need to research to get certain items and buildings due this change.

you should reconsider, it it's really make sense to have this as upgrade to technology and not just regular followup technology, since it unlocks new stuff, not just changing attributes of existing item/building/technology.

just to note, advanced material processing 2 unlocks electrics furnace, so it's not simple upgrade, and you can't find electric furnace in tech tree, when it's set as upgrade ... so it's bad change.

[bobingabout]

I've made a note to look into it anyway.

[mexmer]

I've made a note to look into it anyway.

i did already set it in SCT to false, in case someone else is doing the same thing.

i'm not sure if it's intentional behavior or bug, that search is not working for "upgrade" technologies, might be intentional tho', because of infinite research.

[Serenity]

I'm not quite sure what to install aside from the core mod, Ores, Metals, Electronics, Revamp. Maybe Tech and Power

Is Assemblers something I need?

Modules sounds too crazy, so I'll skip that. I'm not even a huge module fan in vanilla.
Same with the adjustable inserters

What about Mining and Logistics? Is that something that's needed? Mining seems like it could be useful. Logistics could be a bit OP like the inserters, but then you do have larger belt arrays.

[bobingabout]

I'm not quite sure what to install aside from the core mod, Ores, Metals, Electronics, Revamp. Maybe Tech and Power

Is Assemblers something I need?

Modules sounds too crazy, so I'll skip that. I'm not even a huge module fan in vanilla.
Same with the adjustable inserters

What about Mining and Logistics? Is that something that's needed? Mining seems like it could be useful. Logistics could be a bit OP like the inserters, but then you do have larger belt arrays.

Basically, if you want the full experience, you want all the mods.

I can understand dropping Modules, and the Inserters GUI. but it really depends what kind of experience you're going for.

For the most part, you won't need assembling machines mod, and by the same logic, if you're not going for that, might not need mining either (though it does give you the unique machine of water mining drill, but the pumpjack SHOULD be able to fill it's role, just pollute a lot more)

Logistics CAN offer you a lot too, some things you'll like, like the belts and inserters, especially if you turn the overhauls on (though since the inserter overhaul disables the long handed inserter, you need the GUI or shortcut key to create long inserters. There is a cut down version in the Logistics mod that will only toggle long range)

Also, if you're one of these bot hate people, then Logistics does also offer a solution to you. one of the options disables "Roboports", specifically the roboport, and you have to build a robot network out of the components. storage chests, charging pads and zone towers independently. One of the devs loves that idea, and considers it a possible solution to the whole bots vs belts issue, but I'm not going to name any names, or go into any details about it.


To be honest though, if you're going to avoid these mods that add higher tiers to things, you'll have a hard time finding things to spend some of these resources on.

if you don't play with enemies, it's a bit pointless to add the warfare, vehicle equipment and enemies mods, even though they do offer a lot to the game too.

[Serenity]

though it does give you the unique machine of water mining drill, but the pumpjack SHOULD be able to fill it's role, just pollute a lot more)

Yeah, I just downloaded another mod that gives me a water drill because water generation is completely broken, which means I turn down water a lot.

though since the inserter overhaul disables the long handed inserter, you need the GUI or shortcut key to create long inserters. There is a cut down version in the Logistics mod that will only toggle long range

Ah, I didn't know that

To be honest though, if you're going to avoid these mods that add higher tiers to things, you'll have a hard time finding things to spend some of these resources on.

I wasn't really a fan of producing stuff just for the sake of producing more stuff that used the vanilla experience too. So I was glad when infinite research was introduced. We'll see

if you don't play with enemies, it's a bit pointless to add the warfare, vehicle equipment and enemies mods, even though they do offer a lot to the game too.

Yeah it sounds interesting, but for my first time just fighting against the new product chains will be fine

[RocketManChronicles]

I'm not quite sure what to install aside from the core mod, Ores, Metals, Electronics, Revamp. Maybe Tech and Power

Is Assemblers something I need?

Modules sounds too crazy, so I'll skip that. I'm not even a huge module fan in vanilla.
Same with the adjustable inserters

What about Mining and Logistics? Is that something that's needed? Mining seems like it could be useful. Logistics could be a bit OP like the inserters, but then you do have larger belt arrays.

What you have is a good start to Bob's mods. Where you will spend most of your time is dealing with the Electronics in your first time through. They are complex but very rewarding whne you figure them out. During my first playthrough of Bob's mods, I deemed the tiers of technology based on the four Electronics boards, as each new one introduces a whole new logistics problem to solve. Now that I am playing in my 10h(maybe 11th?) run through bob's mods, I actually find more difficulty in balancing the intermediates, metals, and ores than with the electronics. It comes down to balancing production lines managing the byproducts.

Good luck! Don't be afraid to ask questions.

[jodokus31]

This is my current energy consumption:

Bildschirmfoto vom 2018-04-16 13-37-04.png (383.92 KiB) Viewed 6119 times

The stack inserters fraction is the biggest amount, which doesn't feel correct.
Ok, it use them heavily. Sure, as soon i add beacons/modules, it will change drastically

Another suspicion: Despite Miniloaders appear as a distinct entity in energy overview, but i'm not sure, if the internally used stack inserters are also added to energy consumption.

[bobingabout]

This is my current energy consumption:

Bildschirmfoto vom 2018-04-16 13-37-04.png

The stack inserters fraction is the biggest amount, which doesn't feel correct.
Ok, it use them heavily. Sure, as soon i add beacons/modules, it will change drastically

Another suspicion: Despite Miniloaders appear as a distinct entity in energy overview, but i'm not sure, if the internally used stack inserters are also added to energy consumption.

there is only a 800W drain on blue stack inserters, and it is only double the blue inserter, I'm not sure why it would be that high, nor 4 times the drain for half the amount than you have of non-stack. Though that 800W is just the drain, perhaps more of the stack inserters are actually in motion (which they used way more energy to move, about 20kW vs 7kW for non-stack, per rotation per tick, and per movement per tick. they move 2 axis) so, in theory they can use that much, I mean, you're more likely to put a stack inserter somewhere where it will need to do more work anyway.

in theory if you had your 2.1k stack inserters moving none stop in both axis(though most should mostly move in rotation, and barely ever extend), it would take over 80MW of power, but only 1.7MW if they were all standing still.

[jodokus31]

This is my current energy consumption:

Bildschirmfoto vom 2018-04-16 13-37-04.png

The stack inserters fraction is the biggest amount, which doesn't feel correct.
Ok, it use them heavily. Sure, as soon i add beacons/modules, it will change drastically

Another suspicion: Despite Miniloaders appear as a distinct entity in energy overview, but i'm not sure, if the internally used stack inserters are also added to energy consumption.

there is only a 800W drain on blue stack inserters, and it is only double the blue inserter, I'm not sure why it would be that high, nor 4 times the drain for half the amount than you have of non-stack. Though that 800W is just the drain, perhaps more of the stack inserters are actually in motion (which they used way more energy to move, about 20kW vs 7kW for non-stack, per rotation per tick, and per movement per tick. they move 2 axis) so, in theory they can use that much, I mean, you're more likely to put a stack inserter somewhere where it will need to do more work anyway.

in theory if you had your 2.1k stack inserters moving none stop in both axis(though most should mostly move in rotation, and barely ever extend), it would take over 80MW of power, but only 1.7MW if they were all standing still.

It's possible, that many of them work continuously. Those angels mods have high amounts of stuff to be carried around I only use normal length and long-handed, so they should not extend length while moving.
Usually, the most people use regular loaders for angels, which have no energy consumption. Miniloaders also use energy, but this time I wanted to use inserters, wherever it make sense.
I also have 4,1k stack filter inserters for train stations, which consume less, because most of them are idle.

Actually, I like it, that it has a big impact and you really should care about it. Though, max. 180kw for a single stack inserter might be a bit high? Its similar (in the sense of near) to the usage of a working assembly machine.

[bobingabout]

It's actually only 40.8kW for a fully working BLUE stack inserter. most of the time using 20.8kW because rotation without extension.

[jodokus31]

It's actually only 40.8kW for a fully working BLUE stack inserter. most of the time using 20.8kW because rotation without extension.

Ah, ok, good to know. The tooltip says 180 kW, but its maybe a potential max. value? Actually, I looked a bit into it, and i removed some stack inserters or replaced it with normal inserter. Thanks

[gaelyte]

It's the second time it happens today : with rotative inserters, they can't sometimes put the items on the belts(because it's full), but once there is nothing left... they don't release the items, and I have to rotate the belt to make the inserter release the items.

[bobingabout]

It's the second time it happens today : with rotative inserters, they can't sometimes put the items on the belts(because it's full), but once there is nothing left... they don't release the items, and I have to rotate the belt to make the inserter release the items.

And you're sure the offset is set to one side of the belt, rather than centred?