Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

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Jordanb716
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Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

Post by Jordanb716 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:49 pm

TL;DR
Trains would benefit from the ability to disable stations in the schedule based on train-side data, also a toggle to wait for disabled stations instead of skipping them.
What ?
Currently we can disable train stations based on circuit network conditions on the station side. In addition to this I'd like to be able to disable station stops in a trains schedule based on conditions within the train itself (cargo, fuel).

To be specific I don't want the station itself to be disabled, just for the train to treat it as if it were.

In addition, currently trains will skip disabled stations, I'd love for a toggle to change them to wait at the previous station for the stop to enable.
Why ?
There are certain behaviors that seem like they should be possible in vanilla that I can't get working, and these seem like the obvious way to do them.

My use case: I'm currently experimenting with a system of small, single purpose trains, where a single train might have a schedule that looks like:

Pick up iron ore.
Drop off iron ore.
Wait at refueling depot. (ideally only if next station is disabled, or train is low on fuel.)

With the pickup an drop-off stations disabling themselves based on supply and need respectively. What I'd like to do is have the train stop at the depot and wait if say, it has a load of ore but no drop-offs are available, but currently it will just go back and forth between the pickup and depot. If I were able to disable the pickup stop when it already has a full load, or have the train wait if the next station is disabled my problems would be solved. Another obvious use case would be to have the train go to a refueling station when low on fuel.

I can imagine there are other uses for the station stop toggle in more complex schedules (don't want to drop off the wrong item in a schedule with multiple item types being delivered.)

With the current UI already being overhauled I'm hoping this wouldn't be too much trouble to add in.

Thank you for reading!

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Re: Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

Post by Tekky » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:54 pm

Related threads:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49214 Train Entry-Condition
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25944 Train station skipping conditions
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53792 train-stop id and train targets a train-stop by id
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58057 Trains ignore stop if wait condition already met

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Re: Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

Post by <NO_NAME> » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:34 am

Yep. Pretty much everyone who makes advanced train setups has a similar idea sooner or later.
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Check out my mod "Realistic Ores" and my other mods!

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Re: Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

Post by gsezz » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:50 am

Yep, that's why you can't push it enough. ;)
A simple "skip station if condition", like the "Wait at station until condition" would bring so many possibilities.

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Re: Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

Post by dood » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:39 pm

What's the point of a "depot" in which empty trains "wait until they are needed"?

Just stack your trains at the dropoff.
The empty inventory condition does that, and full trains also double as a buffer that way rather than uselessly "waiting until they are needed".
A train is always "needed" if it is empty.

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Re: Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

Post by Jordanb716 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:08 pm

dood wrote:What's the point of a "depot" in which empty trains "wait until they are needed"?

Just stack your trains at the dropoff.
The empty inventory condition does that, and full trains also double as a buffer that way rather than uselessly "waiting until they are needed".
A train is always "needed" if it is empty.
I have my train network set up in a rather tight grid, with each cell having it's own stations and purpose (a cell for iron smelting, a station for circuits production etc.) If I let the trains stack they risk locking up that section of the grid, so I have each station set to only allow one train at a time, and disable if a train is already there, or there isn't enough supply for a full train load, if I need more throughput on the network I add more trains, so I need somewhere they can get out of the way if they aren't needed at the moment.

Each cell is large enough to have quite a bit of production capability, and I'm trying to max out each cell as I go so I can have a blueprint I can copy if I need more of that product in the future, so it's taking me a while to get into the later techs, so I'm not sure how it's gonna work out long term.

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Re: Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

Post by Deadlock989 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:12 pm

Jordanb716 wrote:I have my train network set up in a rather tight grid, with each cell having it's own stations and purpose (a cell for iron smelting, a station for circuits production etc.) If I let the trains stack they risk locking up that section of the grid, so I have each station set to only allow one train at a time, and disable if a train is already there, or there isn't enough supply for a full train load, if I need more throughput on the network I add more trains, so I need somewhere they can get out of the way if they aren't needed at the moment.
Solution: don't do that.

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Re: Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

Post by corgski » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:36 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:Solution: don't do that.
Congratulations you just got someone to register solely to suggest that you could try not being a jerk.

As for stackers, that’s a great workaround for a feature that should be in the game. I’ve been frustrated by the limits of the signaling system and the fact that you have to abuse train pathing to get anything approaching an efficient system. This suggestion in particular would allow for far more complex and compact train-based bases even without adding other features like proper path signals and more intelligent pathfinding AI.

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Re: Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

Post by Deadlock989 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:09 pm

corgski wrote:
Deadlock989 wrote:Solution: don't do that.
Congratulations you just got someone to register solely to suggest that you could try not being a jerk.

As for stackers, that’s a great workaround for a feature that should be in the game. I’ve been frustrated by the limits of the signaling system and the fact that you have to abuse train pathing to get anything approaching an efficient system. This suggestion in particular would allow for far more complex and compact train-based bases even without adding other features like proper path signals and more intelligent pathfinding AI.
I may be a "jerk" - I gather that's American for a dastard or a boor of some kind - but I'm at least I'm not asking for changes to everyone else's game because I've stopped looking for alternatives and am stuck on one way of building things.

When I finally get to see a trains thread that actually suggests something really useful that you can't already do some other way, I'll be posting +1 instead.

I mean, people have only been asking for this over and over and over for, what, a year, two years? I'm sure there's some reason the devs haven't prioritised it.

Toodles.

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Re: Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

Post by dood » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:31 pm

corgski wrote:As for stackers, that’s a great workaround for a feature that should be in the game.
But... the trains have to wait somewhere.
Depots are stackers too.

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Re: Train-side stop disabling and a toggle for station skipping.

Post by corgski » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:10 am

Or you can have one train serve multiple purposes based on which stops it hits instead of stacking single-purpose trains everywhere, that’s the efficiency and compactness I’m talking about.

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