[0.10.2] Insane amount of biters upon spawn

[StaticVoid]

I was gonna start livestreaming some hard mode factorio when i game across this bug,




Will result in this right upon spawning i walked a tiny bit to show the size.



and on normal







This is not intended i hope?

[manpapper]

I think you need to set up a starting area which prevent spawn of biters around the starting area but i not sure.

[StaticVoid]

That does indeed sort of fix it, but thats not a fix for my problem, im trying to get a hardmode spawn, where i have to find resources when i enable starting area its all placed infront of you and defeats the purpose of hard mode

[manpapper]

Maybe the starting area is too huge?

[StaticVoid]

Its on very small On normal its even worse

[ssilk]

If you set no starting area, you have none.

This is not a bug, restart map.

[StaticVoid]

If you set no starting area, you have none.

This is not a bug, restart map.

It happends ever single time. if resources are set to low it seems to be replaced by biters.

edit:
Dont you agree that are WAY to many biters with Very low enemy bases?

[Kazuar]

[...]Dont you agree that are WAY to many biters with Very low enemy bases?

This wasn't directed at me, but I will say that I can't agree here. Just FYI, the frequency setting only refers to whether or not a base will exist in a certain area, NOT how many spawners the base will have. From the amount of spawners, both your screenshots show a normal amount of spawners (as in: "Medium" Size Enemy Bases), although in both cases, you do have one base that seems to trend toward the upper limit I've seen so far for the given map settings.

Both of your screenshots also happen to nicely showcase what the settings actually do: in your first one, you've discovered 3 with walking, on the second one, 4 without walking (and i'd presume another 4 are hidden in the relative area you've scouted in the game before).
What I'm saying is that both screenshots seem perfect for a wiki-page about the game settings

If that's more spawners than you'd care to handle, reduce the actual size for enemy bases, or give yourself some room to breathe by giving yourself a starting area.

Keep in mind that enemies automatically become more frequent, evolved and established the farther you move away from your starting area - it seems intuitive, then, to assume this scales with the size of the starting area. Without a starting area, each chunk would be an infinite amount of "starting area diameters" away from your starting area, since starting area size "none" means "starting area diameter" = zero (and every natural, non-zero number could be considered infinitely larger than zero).

[StaticVoid]

Settings to lowest


map



Size


Still way to many. I'm gonna be forced to play on peaceful because i want very rare ores

[Rahjital]

Just FYI, the frequency setting only refers to whether or not a base will exist in a certain area, NOT how many spawners the base will have.

Not true. Lower frequency settings make bases rarer, but they also make them larger. It's just how coherent noise works.

Without a starting area, each chunk would be an infinite amount of "starting area diameters" away from your starting area, since starting area size "none" means "starting area diameter" = zero (and every natural, non-zero number could be considered infinitely larger than zero).

Yes. I'm not sure if the devs implemented a constant for this special case or if the game code simply uses the maximum density possible, but with no starting area, you are going to see enemy bases pretty much everywhere.

Still way to many. I'm gonna be forced to play on peaceful because i want very rare ores

You can try this mod if you want rare ores and biter bases. It still spawns resources around your spawn, but with a little modification, that can be stopped.

[ssilk]

Dont you agree that are WAY to many biters with Very low enemy bases?

No, you set the frequency to "low" and that means, that you will get big fields of large nests in long distances. Think to waves on the sea: long waves vs. short waves,

I agree in that way, that the whole map-setup is currently much to much control for the players and difficult to understand, but that is not a bug.

[StaticVoid]

Dont you agree that are WAY to many biters with Very low enemy bases?

No, you set the frequency to "low" and that means, that you will get big fields of large nests in long distances. Think to waves on the sea: long waves vs. short waves,

I agree in that way, that the whole map-setup is currently much to much control for the players and difficult to understand, but that is not a bug.

Look at my settings

Settings to lowest


map



Size


Still way to many. I'm gonna be forced to play on peaceful because i want very rare ores

it cannot be any smaller other then disabling it, yet my map is crawling with it, there is no way to create open fields with nothing, only biters.

not to be a dick about mods or this game but,

i prefer vanilla, and if i dont want giant ore fields close to each other it should not replace them with biters just open space. if i wanted so much biters i would have set the settings to max, not lowest

[ssilk]

First: The map is generated with a modified perlin noise generator! Look here: http://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/ ... perlin.htm
Second: The definitions of "Frequency" and "Size" define the wavelength and the amplitude of the generated noise.
By looking at your piece of map you screenshooted, you can see what I mean: The nests are placed more or less regularly. That's how it is working.
The waves, generated by the perlin noise generator can be seen like the tips of waves. And now think: with a large wavelength (=low frequency) it means, that the "tip of the wave" is quite big.
If you then select also "starting area = none", it means, that there is no starting area. You land just in the middle of nowhere.
This is just no bug, you have told the map generator to be working as it should.

Again: Agreed, that this is not quite obvious. But it is enough to play with it and if you don't like to understand, how the map is generated, then live with it, cause it is alpha.

[Kazuar]

Just FYI, the frequency setting only refers to whether or not a base will exist in a certain area, NOT how many spawners the base will have.

Not true. Lower frequency settings make bases rarer, but they also make them larger. It's just how coherent noise works.
*snip*

Interesting, I didn't know that!

*snip*
it cannot be any smaller other then disabling it, yet my map is crawling with it, there is no way to create open fields with nothing, only biters.

not to be a dick about mods or this game but,

i prefer vanilla, and if i dont want giant ore fields close to each other it should not replace them with biters just open space. if i wanted so much biters i would have set the settings to max, not lowest

I'm really, really trying not to sound like a dick here, and I mean no offense, but if You think that amount of biters is crazy, try actually setting everything about enemies to max.

It's gonna be like, imagine your last screenshot, but reversed: currently empty fields become spawners, current spawner areas become the only specks not painted red. It's complete nuts.

That aside, and this is my own opinion, but the last screenshot might as well have no biters at all really; every single one of those bases (with the possible exception of the one in the upper right corner, depending on how it's looking further in) can be purged with trivial ease, as long as they don't grow to medium biters:

• - get military II tech as soon as possible
  - get an smg, and some piercing round magazines (~80-100)
  - walk toward the enemy base
  - once enemies move toward you, press the space key (or whatever key you set "fire" to in the options)
  - release space bar once everything is dead

Combat doesn't get easier than that unless it's set to "OFF". Again, if you want a "hardmode spawn", you gonna have to fight. If you want a "hardmode but without the combat", you do indeed need to set enemies either to "OFF" or to peaceful. If you want "hardmode with the fighting, but also some chance to set up a base", you need to give yourself at a tiny starting area. Of course, if you do that, the game is going to spawn some starting resources on you, as well - there is no way around that, if that is what's bugging you (apart from modding the game, I suppose).

And, again, I'm really, really trying not to sound like a dick here, but the game does exatly what it is supposed here - the way things are sorted in this forum makes it clear that this is, indeed, not a bug (everything seems to work exatly as intended by the devs), but a feature request.

If you think map generation could use more fine-tuned, or clear, settings (and I do like options!), the "Ideas and Suggestions" subforum seems appropiate - luckily, a discussion about map generation has just recently been opened there

[...]much to much control for[...]

Kleine, gut gemeinte Randnotiz: "viel zu viel" ist eine "very german expression" - im englischen heisst es meist "way too much", im übrigen mit der gleichen Neigung das erste Wort in die Länge zu ziehen, um der Aussage nachdruck zu verleihen.
(note to self: you know you've used waaay to much english once you need to check a dictionary to remind yourself what "emphasis" translates to in your own, native tongue )

[cube]

It's exactly as ssilk says. For the hard mode I recommend something like this:

Code: Select all

AAAKAAIAAwACAwYAAAAEAAAAY29hbAMCAQoAAABjb3BwZXItb3JlAwIBCQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAMCAQoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAwIDCAAAAGlyb24tb3JlAwIBBQAAAHN0b25lAwIB1YqFMkBNAAB7vwAAAAAAAAAAAAABABOm8QwAAAAA

(that is a map exchange string, in case you didn't know )

The new game dialogs will change sooner or later, but meanwhile this is not a bug.

[StaticVoid]

Thanks for the reply will try that out when i get a chance