This forum has a toxic behaviour problem.

[numgun]

I've been very dissapointed by the behaviour of some users on this forum.

I have noticed users having a tendency to use sarcastic, dismissive replies that imply wrongness in the other person, rather than hearing what they're needing. The maturity of replies border on personal attacks, opting to maliciously make fun of people, use snide remarks at the victims expense and behave in a hostile way that aims to exclude others wanting to contribute to the forum.

This thread is an example where users were not warned by moderators for their behaviour:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=59034&start=20

Namely users "Deadlock989", "steinio" are notably getting off without any recourse for their treatment of other users, with deeply insulting replies like:

You should consolidate a lawyer.

Either for your false accusation or to make a law suit against Wube or the modder.

This forum can't help you

Also screaming in public advert a silent agreement with Wube.

I run windowed mode and press the X. Revolutionary

What? blasphemy

It's like a proper dark art, pressing X. There is a sealed tome about it in the basement of the British Library but everyone who asks to see it is reported to the government.

I would like for Factorio to be a welcoming community, not a hostile one where toxic behaviour is common. I request the moderators to issue a warning to the above mentioned two users.

[Bilka]

The thread you linked was locked by a moderater which means that the discussion was about to escalate, so it was stopped. I dont think moderation beyond that is necessary since there were no personal attacks.

[Aeternus]

Being factually wrong on your own part doesn't really help either... Throwing an accusation like you did when what you claim is literally not possible given how Factorio interacts (like other games) with the operating system, Steinio's suggestion is valid and actually a helpful response.

Had you thrown a thread like this on many other gaming community forums (WoW, CS, C4D or whatnot) you'd have received a less... mild... response. I speak from experience on that regard.

[Loewchen]

This topic certainly was not our finest hour and I can see that those comments can be hurtful, but I don't think it is a general problem of the forum. Moderation wise, a comment to remind people to be more helpful, or removing comments which are not would have helped, but more I do not see warranted.

[Klonan]

I have always preferred forums to be more open and less heavy handed in their moderation,
And a bit of banter, rudeness or uncomfortable language never really hurts

Especially I feel that forum members being honest and maybe not using the kindest language, is a sign that you are welcomed here,
Nobody here is being pressured or forced to be nice to one another, and I wouldn't really want that

And the other side, over moderation and stricter 'Terms of conduct' are one of the things I hate in modern internet services,
If you use a word over here over there and I take it in a certain way, then I ban you from everything forever

So always I would rather a few people get offended by some sarcastic banter or plain talk with no sugar coating,
Than we start banning and driving away people when they aren't 100% perfect saints with their language

[MeduSalem]

You have a problem with brute and sarcastic remarks on the internet?

I have one suggestion:

Meh

cs97vt1t.jpg (339.48 KiB) Viewed 6204 times

Never forget to put on your protective clothes before entering the internet.

[aka13]

You repeated yourself for 5 times, saying the same thing over and over again, ignoring any sort of meaningful communication. And now you come and try to get people banned, for getting tired of repeated ignorance? That is solid behaviour, right here. Nothing "toxic" at all.

I have always preferred forums to be more open and less heavy handed in their moderation,
And a bit of banter, rudeness or uncomfortable language never really hurts

Especially I feel that forum members being honest and maybe not using the kindest language, is a sign that you are welcomed here,
Nobody here is being pressured or forced to be nice to one another, and I wouldn't really want that

And the other side, over moderation and stricter 'Terms of conduct' are one of the things I hate in modern internet services,
If you use a word over here over there and I take it in a certain way, then I ban you from everything forever

So always I would rather a few people get offended by some sarcastic banter or plain talk with no sugar coating,
Than we start banning and driving away people when they aren't 100% perfect saints with their language

Thank you for continnuation of this forum policy since the beginning, it truly is liberating not having censorship on the forums, for a change.
Inb4 anyone with "ram privilege" and "toxic behaviour" problems tries to push the "moderate everything" agenda here as well.

[MeduSalem]

Oh by the way...

I am using a GTS 250.

Even a worse piece of crap. Yet it NEVER had any problems with Factorio, even with experimental mods or updates.

While Factorio (or any other game) obviously puts heavy loads on your graphics card (which they are actually designed for) I agree with the others... Your graphics card would have died anyway at some point, probably the following days with something else. There is nothing toxic about that if people point out what is quite obvious... yet you go on and chose to ignore it. If you refuse to accept what has been pointed out by many people (including 2 devs) then you shouldn't be surprised if people put sarcastic or brute comments underneath that.

I mean look at how old the graphics card was. Like 10 years already. It is most likely it died from wear and tear... and at that point any program putting some stress on it increases the chance that it could kill the card from one day to the next.

I had it happen so often already... I had a ATI 9800 Pro dying... I had a Geforce 4700 TI dying, I had a GTX 570 dying (which was my former card before I went back to the GTS 250)... yet I never went to a game forum complaining that it killed the graphics card. If so I could go right to Crytek complaining that Crysis caused a burn-in in my GTX 570.

Graphics cards are upon the most common hardware to die from my experience (I never had anything else die so often). I think its their inherently bad thermal / cooling design and the high temperatures they normally run at that are mostly responsible for that, which is especially true for high-end graphics cards that are always on the edge of what is possible with current cooling technologies.They usually are somewhere around 80-90°C under full load even with the fans running at maximum... and the usual heat death occurs at 95-105°C. A sudden spike in the temperature curve through any program or a small dust ball getting stuck in the fan may be already enough to cause a burn-in / permanent damage to it. So they never run very safe in the first place and that is something to blame upon the Graphics Card Vendors.

So I wouldn't wonder at all if my GTS 250 would die off just from idling at the desktop at this point. That is the natural end of everything old, outdated and worn out eventually.

I mean it is so old that Nvidia doesn't even make driver updates for it anymore (same for your GTX 260 since they were part of the same series). They consider it legacy. I wonder how long I will be able to run it anyway before the next major Windows 10 Update will render the driver incompatible and NVidia not giving a damn about it anymore.

[dog80]

now you are globally insulting the whole forum community - thanks

[Kyralessa]

>Lets boot up factorio with this experimental mod setup by an incompetent and irresponsible modder that I had no way to anticipate.

>Oh fuck Factorio is stuck loading, is totally unresponsive and still keeps forcibly trying to load the game anyway.

>Blind idiots on the forum are like "lol its not factorios fault at all" without taking the effort to read the thread before posting.

I essentially walked into an unintentional trap created by an incompetent modder, had Factorio do fuck-all to prevent modder abuse when doing the startup sequence and then have the computer paralyzed with no way to know at the time that neither this was going to damage my hardware nor how I could have stopped it.

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

[steinio]

As Homer J. Simpson said:

It's easy to put the blame on yourself,
but it's easier to put the blame on somebody else.

There are 2 pages of users who tell you are wrong and you cite me. Seems i'm famous now.

[Deadlock989]

Namely users "Deadlock989", "steinio" are notably getting off without any recourse for their treatment of other users, with deeply insulting replies like:

"Deeply insulting"? And I thought I was thin-skinned.

[Jap2.0]

1. Sure, most of that stuff can be huurtful, but sarcasm and light-hearted replies are something I consider to be fun and, to some exent, welcoming. It makes it feel like there, you know people or something on here.
2. It would take me a matter of second to find a half-dozen times this forum has proved me wrong, and all those things have taught me a great deal about Factorio, whatever other random topics of discussion we've stumbled onto, life, and humility.
3. Google (which is a very bad source, but I'm going to use it anyway) defines toxic as "very bad, unpleasent, or harmful". Did this discussion hurt you in any way (excluding possibly your ego)? Did it hurt anyone else? I don't think it counts as "deeply insulting" - it was a disagreement. We gave a through expanation about the lifespan of graphics cards, and you simply countered with the same, unsourced statements.
4. Hardware dies. I've recently known of both an SD card and SSD drive which have failed (after many years of use). It happens. Sure, using graphics-intensive programs might accelerate that (such as mods that your system cannot handle), but it's not that program's fault. I'm sure it would have survived much longer if you had never used your computer.
5. No one seems to be having this probelm with the other 327,000 posts.
6. It was locked. That's not exacly what I'd call the moderators ignoring it.
7. In my time at the forum, I've had a major disagreement with one user. I was fairly new to the forum, I PMed him and apologised, he accepted my apology, and we both editied our posts. We've gotten along fine since.
8. I don't see how you disliking the forum makes it unwelcoming to new users.
9. According to Wikipedia, "sarcasm is mainly distinguished by the inflection with which it is spoken and is largely context-dependent." You can't tell what inflection it was using, and from the context it seems to be fairly lighthearted.
10. To keep this post semi-concise, I won't quote anything, but I agree with pretty much everyone else in this thread.

[Koub]

Well I'm one of the most sarcastic person I know of, so as long as I feel it's sarcasm, I let go. When my guts tell me it's becoming a personal attack, I warn people to behave themselves and/or lock the topic. That's the way I work, and most of the time, the mere warning is enough.
Now the way you brought your issue first hand was a shoutout to be trolled big time. Saying "hey Factorio destroys my 10 year old hardware" is close to saying : most people die in a bed in a hospital, therefore beds - and even more so beds in hospitals - kill people and should be banned.
Had you reported a GPU burnout on Factorio launch, describing your issue, and asking if Factorio could cause such problems, you'd have gotten polite replies, and probably even people would have shown empathy for your hardware loss.

I am sorry you lost your video card, and will probably have to replace it.
I don't feel sorry for the answers you got, and I think the topic was locked just as it should have been, once the sarcasm started to become bashing-ish.
This is an extremely non toxic community, with - as always - some people who sometimes just cross the line, but I had remarkably few acts of coercitive moderation aka censor posts or lock them. All you're doing is alienating the whole community. Not the wisest move if you ask me.

[fiery_salmon]

>Lets boot up factorio with this experimental mod setup by an incompetent and irresponsible modder that I had no way to anticipate.

>Oh fuck Factorio is stuck loading, is totally unresponsive and still keeps forcibly trying to load the game anyway.

>Blind idiots on the forum are like "lol its not factorios fault at all" without taking the effort to read the thread before posting.

I essentially walked into an unintentional trap created by an incompetent modder, had Factorio do fuck-all to prevent modder abuse when doing the startup sequence and then have the computer paralyzed with no way to know at the time that neither this was going to damage my hardware nor how I could have stopped it.

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Yeah, somebody insults others with "Blind idiots", "incompetent and irresponsible", "unintentional trap created by an incompetent modder", "modder abuse" and uses childish insults ("Factorio do fuck-all") combined with 4-chan style of greentext.

And this person starts "This forum has a toxic behaviour problem." thread.

I am not sure is it somebody really unaware about his/her own behavior or a successful troll. Though greentext in viewtopic.php?p=352302#p352302 for me strongly suggests the latter.

[aka13]

>Lets boot up factorio with this experimental mod setup by an incompetent and irresponsible modder that I had no way to anticipate.

>Oh fuck Factorio is stuck loading, is totally unresponsive and still keeps forcibly trying to load the game anyway.

>Blind idiots on the forum are like "lol its not factorios fault at all" without taking the effort to read the thread before posting.

I essentially walked into an unintentional trap created by an incompetent modder, had Factorio do fuck-all to prevent modder abuse when doing the startup sequence and then have the computer paralyzed with no way to know at the time that neither this was going to damage my hardware nor how I could have stopped it.

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Yeah, somebody insults others with "Blind idiots", "incompetent and irresponsible", "unintentional trap created by an incompetent modder", "modder abuse" and uses childish insults ("Factorio do fuck-all") combined with 4-chan style of greentext.

And this person starts "This forum has a toxic behaviour problem." thread.

I am not sure is it somebody really unaware about his/her own behavior or a successful troll.

You can usually crosscheck the nickname with different popular forums, or reddit, to make yourself an impression of anyone on the internet. Always an interesting read.

[Koub]

I feel this is going nowhere. Therefore, like its predecessor, this topic will be locked.
If someone has something extremely constructive to add, feel free to PM me (or any other moderator), and we'll let you post.