3000 hours and Dirty Mining

[jdround]

I have just clocked over 3000 hours spent on Factorio. At $20 this represents astounding value for money.

After I reached the 3000 hour mark the one thought that popped straight into my head regarding the game was Dirty Mining. I know the Devs have stated that the Mining Productivity research seems to be solving this problem however it is the one feature that I feel Factorio is missing, especially from a version 1.0 release.

I enjoy playing with biters. I enjoy automating defences, both at base and outposts. I enjoy placing extensive rail networks to access the outposts. I enjoy watching the trains do their thing. What I don't enjoy is when the outposts run out and I have to demolish the outpost and rail network that connect it. The actual task of clearing is fine since it is with robots, I just don't like demolishing something I have built and watching the corresponding rail networks go. I like the record that I have been here and I'd like the game to constantly show my entire exploration progress.

It would be fantastic to have Dirty Mining as it would allow my outposts and rail networks to stay intact and functional, not to mention adding an additional feature to the game that has to be built, and worked upon to achieve efficiency. It would be a late game research item that suddenly unlocks again all your depleted ore mines around the map.

Thanks for a great game.

[Deadly-Bagel]

4.5 hours every day is excessive. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're probably spent a lot of that time idling. I hope so, at least.

From viewtopic.php?f=3&t=678 :

• Dirty mining. (Way to get more resources from mining posts at a cost of additional industry, logistics requirements and investment)
  We decided to not do this, the mining productivity research seems to be solving the problem.

[Cleany]

I have just finished building a huge base, and only now 300 hours in do I need to go outside of the walls to get ore ...

I have really enjoyed the challenged of automating the process of dismantling outposts. Do I use trains? Do I take a car with me to take stock? How careful do I need to be about how many items are in an outpost at the beginning.

Challenge is fun if it isn't laborious, but also if there are many potentially laborious tasks in the future because you need many outposts, the more efficient and automatic a process you create for it, then the more rewarding it is in the end.

[Ringkeeper]

well, sometimes the point of mining is , that the ore field disappears...

if you start a map with horrible ore settings and you have thousands of little patches and no place to build, then you want them to be gone.
Building over them is not an option!!

Which gives another challenge: harvest enough in the correct spot and use it to get your factory bigger.... sudden refilling of ore patches would be horrible.

Also as someone that likes trains i like to go out far. The patches their last for decades....

[GlassDeviant]

I don't even know how many hours I've played Factorio. Steam says 175, but I got it from the website back in early 2015, possibly late 2014 counting the demo version, and only added it to steam years later.

[aober93]

Doesnt beat my record in another game which had 500 days lol..

but the point about factorio, i dont think what you build is wasted. Because blueprints. I either blueprint the entire thing, or modular things and the same is recreated. That gets things done pretty quick.

[Hellatze]

if you want to play dirty mining, go play with angel mod.

angel mod full of surprise and a lot of feature that should be added in factorio.

i think i know why dev didn't want to add it.

because dirty mining itself are huge feature, and yet angel666 able to create it alone.

i think factorio team didnt want to add it because they are lazy.

[aka13]

if you want to play dirty mining, go play with angel mod.

angel mod full of surprise and a lot of feature that should be added in factorio.

i think i know why dev didn't want to add it.

because dirty mining itself are huge feature, and yet angel666 able to create it alone.

i think factorio team didnt want to add it because they are lazy.

[Moderated by Koub : no personal attacks please]

[Hellatze]

if you want to play dirty mining, go play with angel mod.

angel mod full of surprise and a lot of feature that should be added in factorio.

i think i know why dev didn't want to add it.

because dirty mining itself are huge feature, and yet angel666 able to create it alone.

i think factorio team didnt want to add it because they are lazy.

[Moderated by Koub : no personal attacks please]

You just never think that way.

You just want to delude yourself. But never think that dev capale to doing that.

[MeduSalem]

if you want to play dirty mining, go play with angel mod.

angel mod full of surprise and a lot of feature that should be added in factorio.

i think i know why dev didn't want to add it.

because dirty mining itself are huge feature, and yet angel666 able to create it alone.

i think factorio team didnt want to add it because they are lazy.

[Moderated by Koub : no personal attacks please]

You just never think that way.

You just want to delude yourself. But never think that dev capale to doing that.

Hahahaha. Do you even have a good reason for why you think dirty mining "needs" to be a part of Vanilla Factorio?

Probably not other than feeling entitled to have it... hence why you call the devs "lazÿ" just because you don't want to accept that they decided not to implement the feature due to how infinite productivity research solved the underlying problem anyway... and rather use the development time to concentrate on fixing bugs and polishing the game to get it finally finished.

[Hellatze]

if you want to play dirty mining, go play with angel mod.

angel mod full of surprise and a lot of feature that should be added in factorio.

i think i know why dev didn't want to add it.

because dirty mining itself are huge feature, and yet angel666 able to create it alone.

i think factorio team didnt want to add it because they are lazy.

[Moderated by Koub : no personal attacks please]

You just never think that way.

You just want to delude yourself. But never think that dev capale to doing that.

Hahahaha. Do you even have a good reason for why you think dirty mining "needs" to be a part of Vanilla Factorio?

Probably not other than feeling entitled to have it... hence why you call the devs "lazÿ" just because you don't want to accept that they decided not to implement the feature due to how infinite productivity research solved the underlying problem anyway... and rather use the development time to concentrate on fixing bugs and polishing the game to get it finally finished.

dirty mining needed to make game more interesting, adding challenge and possibility. but they decide to change that into productivity infinite research.

they think, why bother adding dirty mining. if modder making it ?

to think that i find modder like angel666 able to mod dirty mining alone. its not that impossible to add those feature.

this game called factorio anyway.

again, you never want to think that way.

[MeduSalem]

dirty mining needed to make game more interesting, adding challenge and possibility. but they decide to change that into productivity infinite research.

they think, why bother adding dirty mining. if modder making it ?

to think that i find modder like angel666 able to mod dirty mining alone. its not that impossible to add those feature.

this game called factorio anyway.

again, you never want to think that way.

While Dirty Mining would surely be a nice feature to have, the game has enough depth and gameplay even without Dirty Mining already... so from that perspective it is NOT needed for Vanilla Factorio. Adding it doesn't solve any outstanding problems.

The only thing you want is more features for the sake of more features, because you are bored and don't know how else to waste your time.

It doesn't matter if the devs are capable of doing it. Every decent programmer should be able to implement it.

The reason for why the devs don't implement is that they clearly stated multiple times throughout the past 2-3 years already that they finally want to get finished developing the game and only ever add features anymore where they think that they are absolutely required... and also only when there is time left to do it. But if there isn't the time or if they aren't really required then they don't bother to add purely optional "would be nice to have"-features. And even if they have the time to implement such "would be nice to have"-features they will implement ones that the devs find the most benefiting. It is called setting priorities, which is one of the most important things in project management.

Also did you ever think about the possibility that the devs have been working hard on Factorio for more than 5 years already, hence consider the game almost finished and want to be done with the project and move on?

No, you never want to think that way... because you feel like you are entitled to get even more features, and since you can't have your way, you resort on calling them lazy, falsely believing that this way you will get anyone to give in to your demands.

[Marza]

Woah, MeduSalem just went full beastmode! In before a reply with the words 'fanboy', 'whiteknight' or 'sum up wall of text'.

Back to the topic of hand; of course pretty much everyone here likes the idea of dirty mining and would like to have it. I guess the reason we haven't seen such a feature in the base game is because of the following:

priorities

Dirty mining won't be in the base game until the developers have finished doing everything else they think is more important.

[MeduSalem]

Woah, MeduSalem just went full beastmode! In before a reply with the words 'fanboy', 'whiteknight' or 'sum up wall of text'.

I am not a "fanboy" or "whiteknight".

I usually express my share of criticism on Factorio as well and have done so at a lot of occasions, even on Infinite Productivity Research and Dirty Mining. I am also on the stance that a gameplay solution would obviously be more interesting than a +% productivity research solution. But I am also honest to myself that I would only want Dirty Mining because I want to toy around with an additional feature, and not because of how it is actually needed/required due to how the game would be lackluster without it. Productivity Research perfectly solves the underlying problem (not enough resources, constantly having to build new outposts all the time) of why Dirty Mining has been suggested in the first place.

But that said, I am not going so far to call the devs lazy just because I don't get what I want.

They have 1000 other things on their list to work on as well, unlike modders who can concentrate working on one particular thing as long as they desire. So if the implementation over research does the job for now so that they can focus on something else they deem more important then so be it.

priorities

Dirty mining won't be in the base game until the developers have finished doing everything else they think is more important.

More likely won't be a part of the base game until a paid addon/DLC together with other stuff, if ever. Which I would be totally fine with.

[HerpicusMcDerpington]

I am not a "fanboy" or "whiteknight".

I think he meant "before hellatze can type any of these"

[MeduSalem]

I think he meant "before hellatze can type any of these"

I know and I just took away the opportunity.

If he is going to write it anyway I am just going to have another laugh at his expense. So I am already curious what kind of triggered acid will follow. Probably it will be the "sum it up because I am too lazy to read", which is going to be deliciously ironic.

[bobucles]

Hey, don't start beating up strawmen without inviting me! A 500 word essay is simply par for the course on these forums.

The devs definitely need to focus on "essential" issues to finalize the game. Don't forget that the goal of Factorio is to build the rocket, and the devs have been crazy enough to keep building FAR beyond that goal. Dirty mining adds a potential processing line to boost your resources, but it simply isn't important for building a rocket. Plenty of other issues also aren't essential for building a rocket. Bots vs. belts. More blueprint functions. Basically every issue that happens in the post game is one giant big OPTIONAL for the final version.

I do think some forgotten things are bigger issues than players give feedback for. The lack of a complete campaign is a pretty big deal. A campaign is basically a shiny tutorial, in that it teaches all the important parts of the game in bite sized chunks. The current campaign ends at plastics. It struggles to teach important topics such as trains, armor equipment and weapons. It doesn't even reach the point to talk about modules, circuit networks, nuclear power or even THE ROCKET. When the goal of the game is to build a ROCKET, it's a pretty big hole that your campaign doesn't build a ROCKET.

There are many tools and tricks that I think every player should be exposed to, and these are exactly the sort of things to "show don't tell" in a campaign. A new player can benefit greatly from using a Main Bus to untangle his spaghetti. Some simple circuit designs like an automatic oil cracker can help anyone. Put in a few train stations, multi lane balancers, lines of boilers, train intersections and so forth. In short, litter the campaign maps with small but USEFUL blueprints for players to utilize.

Campaign missions don't have to be FULL sized factories from start to finish. In fact they really shouldn't be. Keep the goals small and focused around key topics. For example, say in mission 4 you build nothing but mines and trains. The only goal is to fill a few trains with ore and send them off the map. Mission 5 starts you in a new area, where you have trains from off map hauling in loads of ore that have to be processed. Mission 6 might be a holdout, where you focus on defending key points while waiting for research to process. Mission 7 uses bots and blueprints(give a few!) where you remote build a base across a giant river, in order to mine enough stone to landfill a bridge across. Things like that. Keep working the campaign goals in bite sized chunks (if it takes over an hour like New Hope 2 it's TOO long) until the player eventually reaches a point where they can build the rocket.

[MeduSalem]

Hey, don't start beating up strawmen without inviting me! A 500 word essay is simply par for the course on these forums.

Hopefully I will remember to send you an invitation the next time.

The devs definitely need to focus on "essential" issues to finalize the game. Don't forget that the goal of Factorio is to build the rocket, and the devs have been crazy enough to keep building FAR beyond that goal. Dirty mining adds a potential processing line to boost your resources, but it simply isn't important for building a rocket. Plenty of other issues also aren't essential for building a rocket. Bots vs. belts. More blueprint functions. Basically every issue that happens in the post game is one giant big OPTIONAL for the final version.

I do think some forgotten things are bigger issues than players give feedback for. The lack of a complete campaign is a pretty big deal. A campaign is basically a shiny tutorial, in that it teaches all the important parts of the game in bite sized chunks. The current campaign ends at plastics. It struggles to teach important topics such as trains, armor equipment and weapons. It doesn't even reach the point to talk about modules, circuit networks, nuclear power or even THE ROCKET. When the goal of the game is to build a ROCKET, it's a pretty big hole that your campaign doesn't build a ROCKET.

[...]

I agree on that. The main goal is the rocket... and the remaining QoL changes/additions should probably be about polishing up the game up until to the point of launching a rocket.

They tried to address some of the stuff above with the Mini Tutorials... I think it could have been well integrated into the campaign from start to finish. The question is if it should be optional or not, because for me a huge part of the experience was to find out stuff on my own instead of being spoon-fed everything. Wouldn't want to miss that experience.

Btw another important thing that comes off my head that requires attention is the world generator, because currently the results are often awkward on certain parts (especially unpredictible Resource Spawning, weird/no Cliff Spawning and also the watersettings because of the Swamps and marshes that want to call themselves lakes). Gladly they are already looking into that.

[Hellatze]

dirty mining needed to make game more interesting, adding challenge and possibility. but they decide to change that into productivity infinite research.

they think, why bother adding dirty mining. if modder making it ?

to think that i find modder like angel666 able to mod dirty mining alone. its not that impossible to add those feature.

this game called factorio anyway.

again, you never want to think that way.

While Dirty Mining would surely be a nice feature to have, the game has enough depth and gameplay even without Dirty Mining already... so from that perspective it is NOT needed for Vanilla Factorio. Adding it doesn't solve any outstanding problems.

The only thing you want is more features for the sake of more features, because you are bored and don't know how else to waste your time.

It doesn't matter if the devs are capable of doing it. Every decent programmer should be able to implement it.

The reason for why the devs don't implement is that they clearly stated multiple times throughout the past 2-3 years already that they finally want to get finished developing the game and only ever add features anymore where they think that they are absolutely required... and also only when there is time left to do it. But if there isn't the time or if they aren't really required then they don't bother to add purely optional "would be nice to have"-features. And even if they have the time to implement such "would be nice to have"-features they will implement ones that the devs find the most benefiting. It is called setting priorities, which is one of the most important things in project management.

Also did you ever think about the possibility that the devs have been working hard on Factorio for more than 5 years already, hence consider the game almost finished and want to be done with the project and move on?

No, you never want to think that way... because you feel like you are entitled to get even more features, and since you can't have your way, you resort on calling them lazy, falsely believing that this way you will get anyone to give in to your demands.

So thats the reason why factorio team didnt want to add more feature ? (*cough artillery train *cough).

I am pretty sure factorio team just let modder making feature for them.

Yep like usual.

[Hellatze]

Not adding feature sure. A problem.