Development and Discussion

[mrvn]

btw. there are no greenhouses in seablock modpack.

Hard to make them work even if you add them sine you need at least some trees to bootstrap them. Doesn't work without the Wood for SeaBlock mod as well.

[aklesey1]

The model on the right is probably gonna get scrapped, not happy with it

Good work Arch666Angel, i like this new graphics
I like new skin for chemical plant? can u make new skin for assembler?

[ukezi]

rarely more like never. as you can sink huge amounts into landfill and your farms can eat hundreds per sec.
You mostly don't go the crushed->slury road, as you get more out of slag, and you can use the crushed better elsewhere.

[AreYouScared]

Didn't see a question about this, but would it be possible to get a buffer silo?

[foodfactorio]

im really enjoying the farms so far

i managed to find 1 of each after exploring quite a bit, and currently am cultivating 2 out of 3 trees, (for wood and bio resin/plastic), but am needing to continue cultivating actual Gardens, as am still missing quite a few seeds of the various crop types to grow, but here is my current in progress screen

Farm 1, has Wheaton, which is always growing, and i process some of it back into seeds, to keep 1 stack of seeds in reserve (just in case i make a mistake, as this will allow me to convert some into fertiliser, compost, and grow some again).
+
Half goes into Corn production.
+
All of the corns gets split into half, to become 2 different processed oils/liquids for later as am still behind on research.
(i set it to half mainly because its my first playthrough with AngelBobYuoki, and i didnt know what i would need more of, Nutrient Pulp, or Fermentation Base?)

Farm 2, has Tianaton, which is keeping 1 stack of seeds as before, but getting turned into Cellulose Fibre

& Farm 6 (my 3rd one which is running), is still stacking up seeds, but will probably go half / half into more Pulp and Vegetable Oils

i will probably have to shift to 3 rows of 5, to make space for a belted processing area (since i cant have too many robots yet and the output of each farm building is quite a lot of items per production cycle, which gradually seems to decrease as they get processed further up the chain) - but so far it is cool fun

[foodfactorio]

sorry i forgot how to get the camera to show the inserter arrows, but here is a drawn on version to show the flow of items in case useful: (it might need to be opened in a new tab zoomed in or look squashed though)

[Iorek]

how do I avoid the massive sulfuric acid shortages?

there seems to be no way to produce sulfuric acid other than converting waste water, which needs to process something to produce.

I currently consume 189k sulfuric acid but only produce 152k.

Is there some way to mine sulfur or something I am missing? everything works fine till i start producing battery's, at which point it all breaks.

[steinio]

Coal to coke can give you sulfur.
You need to research the tech first.

[Zyrconia]

Do you plan to update logistics for 0.16 or wait until the "angels industries" is ready?

Regardless of this. Thanks for your great work and I hope you will come up with more interesting ideas

I'm curious too.

And how much of a time frame are we talking about? I'm not impatient, just asking. A couple of months or more?

[BHakluyt]

Hi Guys

Some help please. I can't find an Angel's bioprocessing subforum. I am trying to play a seablock game. Latest v16.24; all angels and bobs without enemies. (Turned biters and pollution off for performance.) ANyways, it seems the "forage cellulose fibres" recipe is broken, and I cannot find it in the mods documents. Am I missing something? Am I the only one stuck with this?

I had to go add/change recipes to get cellulose fibre. Been struggling with getting things balanced since then.

cblokki

seablokki.jpg (346.31 KiB) Viewed 7718 times

[MadClown01]

how do I avoid the massive sulfuric acid shortages?

there seems to be no way to produce sulfuric acid other than converting waste water, which needs to process something to produce.

I currently consume 189k sulfuric acid but only produce 152k.

Is there some way to mine sulfur or something I am missing? everything works fine till i start producing battery's, at which point it all breaks.

Clean ALL your coal to coke - you'll have more than enough sulfuric waste water.
Alternatively, if you're far enough in - start cracking coal. There's some very acidic options there.

[foodfactorio]

hi you can also make sulfur dioxide gas, and then into sulfuric acid.

It might need research but this process does eat up oxygen (which im always low on), but i also ran out of sulfuric acid after i mined most of the surface ore, switching to infinite ore mining (which requires the sulfuric acid), and especially when i started the Crystals refining which uses up i think about 30 per production cycle.

here is an example for how you can make it:
(tons of sulfur from the hydroplant, goes to 1 chem plant to make the sulfur dioxide gas, and then another plant makes the sulfuric acid)

edit: one thing that helped me a lot, was adding in a small inline storage tank (or multiple), to act as a buffer, so that gas and acid can be stored whenever made, even if not being used up as quickly.... this is so that production of them will always be able to take place, and then when other things start using up more of them, you already have enough stored up to cater for the surge in demand

[foodfactorio]

phew, it took 43 Production Cycles to cultivate and extract the 5 Okarinome Seeds needed for starting the farm just missing 3 types now (Ken.Arum.Qui)

[Zyrconia]

So is Molten Concrete the Angel's intended way of getting concrete? Like with algae for wood instead of greenhouses?

And I suppose this is your primary quartz dump, together with steel smelting?

[Zyrconia]

My new base based on 1 to N (1 saph => iron, copper, slag) sorting is going real smooth, but I have reached the point where I am can no longer handle the copper ore I'm getting. There is nothing to do with it.

I don't want to switch to N to 1 sorting, because this is the whole point of the base, but what to do with all that copper. Is there some late game copper drain?

Or should I switch to saph+jiv only for Iron and keep 1 to N for the rest of the base?

[jodokus31]

My new base based on 1 to N (1 saph => iron, copper, slag) sorting is going real smooth, but I have reached the point where I am can no longer handle the copper ore I'm getting. There is nothing to do with it.

I don't want to switch to N to 1 sorting, because this is the whole point of the base, but what to do with all that copper. Is there some late game copper drain?

Or should I switch to saph+jiv only for Iron and keep 1 to N for the rest of the base?

I would say, anything, that goes into science has a late game drain (which is similar to infinite). Thats why I like the ScienceCostTweaker, because it makes use of many more materials (like lead).
So, if you stop producing copper and go all into saph+jiv iron only sorting, you will run out eventually on copper.
The problem is the ratio and its not constant during game. So I would say, this should be balanced by using different kind of sorting methods.
The safest way is to produce everything with N to 1 sorting, which is not possible in early and mid game and also requires additional catalysts. But you can try to fill out the missing requirements with N to 1 sorting.

[Zyrconia]

My new base based on 1 to N (1 saph => iron, copper, slag) sorting is going real smooth, but I have reached the point where I am can no longer handle the copper ore I'm getting. There is nothing to do with it.

I don't want to switch to N to 1 sorting, because this is the whole point of the base, but what to do with all that copper. Is there some late game copper drain?

Or should I switch to saph+jiv only for Iron and keep 1 to N for the rest of the base?

I would say, anything, that goes into science has a late game drain (which is similar to infinite). Thats why I like the ScienceCostTweaker, because it makes use of many more materials (like lead).
So, if you stop producing copper and go all into saph+jiv iron only sorting, you will run out eventually on copper.
The problem is the ratio and its not constant during game. So I would say, this should be balanced by using different kind of sorting methods.
The safest way is to produce everything with N to 1 sorting, which is not possible in early and mid game and also requires additional catalysts. But you can try to fill out the missing requirements with N to 1 sorting.

I should have been more clear: obviously, when switching from a 1 to N all the N outputs must be provided by adding new N to 1 lines. So in this case, if I switch over, I will add saph + jiv for iron I also must use stir + crot for copper and have fine tuned ratios, otherwise you will run out of copper soon, as you said.

But that is how I usually play. You can 100% rush this playstyle in early game: been doing it for 400 hours. So you can do it early game. You need to rush a small BEB setup, a crappy will do, by the 2-3 hour mark. Then rush trains and add exactly two trains for jib and crot. You can do this by the 4-6 hour mark. And you are done: you have a self balancing sustainable base than does not produce slag. In fact, you need to add artificial slag production, because you don't have enough crushed stone.

Then once you are done with the 4 early game ores, all you need is one extra train for thermal water. By the time you need this train you can knock out early blue science with plastic from algae.

But this run I'm intentionally trying to use as much 1 to N as possible, for a larger challenge, but there is nothing I can do with such amounts of copper. Even mid game you need 10 times as much iron as copper, but for every line of iron ore, you get half of a line of copper ore. That is much more copper than I need.

This is the final unresolved mystery for me with Angel's mods: is 1 to N sorting a stepping stone tech, like wooden poles and steel furnaces, to be replaced once you tech up, or where they balanced to be used on their own.

Now Angel's is so complex that you will probably mix and match your recipes. But N to 1 is easy and can take you to the megabase stage. So can a mixed setup. But can a pure 1 to N do so? I don't think so. Not without once in a while shooting a warehouse or using some omni-mater like mod to break down excess minerals.

[jodokus31]

But this run I'm intentionally trying to use as much 1 to N as possible, for a larger challenge, but there is nothing I can do with such amounts of copper. Even mid game you need 10 times as much iron as copper, but for every line of iron ore, you get half of a line of copper ore. That is much more copper than I need.

This is the final unresolved mystery for me with Angel's mods: is 1 to N sorting a stepping stone tech, like wooden poles and steel furnaces, to be replaced once you tech up, or where they balanced to be used on their own.

Now Angel's is so complex that you will probably mix and match your recipes. But N to 1 is easy and can take you to the megabase stage. So can a mixed setup. But can a pure 1 to N do so? I don't think so. Not without once in a while shooting a warehouse or using some omni-mater like mod to break down excess minerals.

"But can a pure 1 to N do so?"

I dont know it, maybe.

To answer this, I think you could break down the consumption of ores for science packs and the rockets and calculate, which ratios are needed in the long term. And then it also depends on which infinite research you are prefer (with military science or without). And it also doesn't consider the very different needs in early/mid game and the static amount of stuff needed to setup infrastructure.
I would assume problems with nickel, cobalt, zinc and silver getting too much.

Since 0.16, there is also different method to get iron plates and later steel plates with ferric crushed ore (from saphirite, jivolite and rubyte), which yields iron and manganese. Both can be used to create iron plates. Since iron ore is also needed for steel, the iron is still not enough here, but you can add this process to support iron. Later, steel can also be made with manganese, too. Similar possibility exists with cupric crushed ore sorting for tin and copper.
Those two add another level of complexity but also possibilities to balance.

I think, Angels provide those different methods to let us find it out ourselves. Every method has its up- and downsides. I think, you can survive, if you only use N to 1, if 1 to N or ferric/cupric sorting gets too unbalanced once in a while.

Then once you are done with the 4 early game ores, all you need is one extra train for thermal water. By the time you need this train you can knock out early blue science with plastic from algae.

Does that mean, you only crystallize the higher tier ores? Maybe you want to try the stony road of chunk/crystal sorting

[foodfactorio]

in v0.16, im on that stony road currently and just got all 4 of the main ores (red, brown, light and dark blue) to the full Purified crystals sorting stage, and soon to set up full geode processing and crystallisation. (with basic maths and at first glance, it looks like processing geodes into stone and dust, is better than melting them with sulfuric acid, since the crushed stone can become mineral sludge and still create specific ores as prefered, but time will tell).

by the way, if you have a mod called "what-is-it-really-used-for", you can pick up a stack of Copper Plates, or Copper Ingots, and place them onto the small magnifing glass (search icon in the top left of the screen), and it can show you almost everything that can use copper. (sometimes it shows you recipes locked by research, which is cool, but it is worth re-checking from time to time as it could then display more recipes for you as you unlock things)

copper ingots can also help you make Aluminium, Solder, Bronze, Brass, Gun Metal, and something else, as well as the Ferrous Crystals, which looks like it can turn lots of raw Copper Ore, into Iron ore (plus the magneium that jodukus mentions)

plus, if you go nuclear, that can eat up 2-4k copper plates easily.

~3 copper plates (before any advanced smelting) per Elec Board

elec boards
x100 (for centrifuge)
x500 (for reactor) (plus 500 copper plates to build)

+100 copper plates for 1 heat exchanger
+50 copper for basic steam turbine
+ 20 plates per heat pipe.

so if your base needs lots of power, for each nuclear setup you do, it could easily take up at least 2000 to 3000 copper plates alone

[Zyrconia]

Yeah, I'm not worried about 2-4k plates. I'm worried about multiple full warehouses.

Plus, the additional slag put my crushed stone in overdrive and now I have a full warehouse of stone brick. I had to set up emergency plastic, large enough to eat all the crushed stone, because if crushed stone backs up, the whole base stops.

I ended up with mining Jiv and using that for Iron and it is far more satisfying to finally have all the iron you need (12 smelting "modules" for now, tier 2) without causing your copper to explode.

So I guess I'm falling back to old habits.

This 1 to N approach won't work for me. too bad, I wanted to experiment with mixed metal smelting. Mixed metal smelting doesn't seem that useful if you have precise amount of ore and no excess unwanted ones.

So I need a new theme for this base. I'm thinking of creating the ultimate green science base: the largest most complex green science based base, that uses everything Angel's has to offer. The only thing you can't do with green science is process residual gas.