Development and Discussion

[foodfactorio]

(edit: yuoki added note here)
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=57749

ok that is understandable - if it is added, cool, if not able to be added, also ok
but i think at least if added somewhere, then probably yuokis mod page so that players will know that the 2 (usually visible) ores that make unicomp, will not be visible on the map, but can still be obtained by processing others when also playing with refining.

[mexmer]

ok that is understandable - if it is added, cool, if not able to be added, also ok
but i think at least if added somewhere, then probably yuokis mod page so that players will know that the 2 (usually visible) ores that make unicomp, will not be visible on the map, but can still be obtained by processing others when also playing with refining.

outputs are listed in tooltip, when you put mouse over ore patch "can be refined into ...."" and there is list of what you can get, while list is long, what you actually get depends on refining process stage, like basic sorting gives only basic ores, chunks give more, crystals more, and so on ....

have not tested it with yuoki, so idk how description changes, but for me, this is quite self explaining



also you can lookup either in research or production tab, which stage gives you what



but i get what you mean, some people might assume, that compound ores are present along with "regular" ores.

[mrvn]

You can find these "gardens" (tiny, bush sized items) around (using deconstructor to scan area with filter is easiest) and extract seeds/research tokens from them.
They only spawn on vanilla terrain currently so i had to cheat to get more than couple, 5 gardens just wasnt enough with marathon research settings.
After you get past certain point you can grow more of them slowly.

I found some gardens but hovering over it says deconstructing it gives me just wood and that is all I got from it. Is that something Bluebuild2 breaks? Is there a chance to get seeds so you don't always get some?

Or how do you extract seeds/research tokens from them?

[mexmer]

You can find these "gardens" (tiny, bush sized items) around (using deconstructor to scan area with filter is easiest) and extract seeds/research tokens from them.
They only spawn on vanilla terrain currently so i had to cheat to get more than couple, 5 gardens just wasnt enough with marathon research settings.
After you get past certain point you can grow more of them slowly.

I found some gardens but hovering over it says deconstructing it gives me just wood and that is all I got from it. Is that something Bluebuild2 breaks? Is there a chance to get seeds so you don't always get some?

Or how do you extract seeds/research tokens from them?

you mean this garden?



although it comes in various shapes (i mean different trees can be garden, also sometimes you can extract not only seedlings (or whatever is that), but also some wood from it.

mind, this is freshly generated map (bitters in peace mode), and this one i found after 2 minutes of walk away from starting area.

[Grimlin]

Also Invar should be iron and nickel not steel and nickel.

Why?

While I don't agree with ukezis childish tone the point is still right.

Invar is an alloy of iron and nickel while steel is an alloy of iron and carbon. From what I can tell from looking at sources online is that Invar isn't made from steel currently so it's either impossible or at least not economical.

Obviously, if it's better gameplay to do the recipe with steel, my argument is irrelevant.

[Arch666Angel]

Also Invar should be iron and nickel not steel and nickel.

Why?

While I don't agree with ukezis childish tone the point is still right.

Invar is an alloy of iron and nickel while steel is an alloy of iron and carbon. From what I can tell from looking at sources online is that Invar isn't made from steel currently so it's either impossible or at least not economical.

Obviously, if it's better gameplay to do the recipe with steel, my argument is irrelevant.

First of you are mixing terms here, the chemical makeup of invar is iron and nickel plus extra, which refers to the element iron -> chemical view
The other view/side is the metallurgy one, iron as a metal is always an alloy usually with carbon: steel if there is less then 2% carbon, iron (more specific cast-iron) if carbon is more than 2%. So if you are talking about metals, you are almost always talking about a mixture of not one but several elements.
Back to chemistry: So if you want to get an alloy with 64% Fe, 36 % Ni and 1% or less with all other elements including carbon you need some highly purified iron source. Going back to the definition Iron alloy with less then 2% carbon -> steel. In some cases the material is called Invar steel which as far as I know isnt correct either, steel alloys have a max of 20% other elements mixed in.

The process is of course a lot more complex than this and I didnt read through the Dubbel to see if there anything about it in there, but that's how I understand it. Also like you pointed out it's also more fitting from a progression point of view.

[ukezi]

actually you need also more then about 0.5% carbon in the iron to make it steel. Below that hardening is not possible and it is called iron again. Can we also talk about how silly it is to take a big amount of iron, blow some oxygen in and then get a tiny amount of steel out?

[BroomsBane]

actually you need also more then about 0.5% carbon in the iron to make it steel. Below that hardening is not possible and it is called iron again. Can we also talk about how silly it is to take a big amount of iron, blow some oxygen in and then get a tiny amount of steel out?

Somebody took the rest. It's right in the name.

[Vas]

Use "changelog.txt" instead of putting your change log on the mod page. It shows up in game as a clickable button. If you wish to use my mod as an example to see how its done, just wait for me to update one more time, I'm working on adding a new option to my mod right now, testing it out and stuff.



I also used your mod page as an example in another post.

[MrQuiggles]

Might just be me but the Wil Wheaton reference is really jarring. I know I can just edit the cfg, but having to take an extra step to keep the immersion is a bit irritating.

[hewhoispale]

Might just be me but the Wil Wheaton reference is really jarring. I know I can just edit the cfg, but having to take an extra step to keep the immersion is a bit irritating.

What reference?

[Arch666Angel]

actually you need also more then about 0.5% carbon in the iron to make it steel. Below that hardening is not possible and it is called iron again. Can we also talk about how silly it is to take a big amount of iron, blow some oxygen in and then get a tiny amount of steel out?

Dont know where you got this number but even looking at different publications definitions range from 0-2%, 0.05-2.06% and 0.1-2% carbon content. And then there is whole other definition for alloyed and highly alloyed steels. There is something like "technical pure iron" which has more than 99.99% iron content, but this can only be produced by very energy intensive methods (electrolysis from iron-salts for example).

p.26, DUBBEL - Handbook of Mechanical Engineering

If you are talking about ferrous materials you should know the iron-carbon phase-diagram

p.27, DUBBEL - Handbook of Mechanical Engineering

Hardening has nothing to do with how the materials are defined, vice versa the effect if a material can be hardened is a property that can be achieved by careful alloying.

Changing the cost to make steel would mean that I need to introduce something else to make it a T2 material, or require it to always be an alloy which would also make sense because unalloyed steel is quiet rare these days.

[Arch666Angel]

Use "changelog.txt" instead of putting your change log on the mod page. It shows up in game as a clickable button. If you wish to use my mod as an example to see how its done, just wait for me to update one more time, I'm working on adding a new option to my mod right now, testing it out and stuff.



I also used your mod page as an example in another post.

Hey thanks for the hint, I already have the changelogs in my mod folders, but it never occurred that they implemented this.

[Vas]

Hey thanks for the hint, I already have the changelogs in my mod folders, but it never occurred that they implemented this.

You just have to do it in a specific way is all, a specific format that is. I tried Tabs because I hate spaces, and it broke. :/

[foodfactorio]

thanks mexmer,

interesting info about making metals i think i will not use google, and not use duubel, but instead will enjoy some Strudel

[Arch666Angel]

Hey thanks for the hint, I already have the changelogs in my mod folders, but it never occurred that they implemented this.

You just have to do it in a specific way is all, a specific format that is. I tried Tabs because I hate spaces, and it broke. :/

And now I need a slave worker to convert all the changelogs to the new format -_-

[brab]

Edit: I'm still on 0.15 version of the mod, so you can disregard this. (I'm emptying all my barrels before switching to 0.16, the 250 to 50 loss is too much…)

I guess you have cheap Bob's steel enabled which ruins the ratios.

Regarding this, I play with Angel and Bob's mods with default settings. Maybe Angel mods should change this, if it's better for gameplay.

In the meantime, do I need to play around with Bob's config mod to disable this?

[mexmer]

Edit: I'm still on 0.15 version of the mod, so you can disregard this. (I'm emptying all my barrels before switching to 0.16, the 250 to 50 loss is too much…)

I guess you have cheap Bob's steel enabled which ruins the ratios.

Regarding this, I play with Angel and Bob's mods with default settings. Maybe Angel mods should change this, if it's better for gameplay.

In the meantime, do I need to play around with Bob's config mod to disable this?

i think by default cheap steel override is not enabled, so you need 5 plates for 1 steel. you need to enable it mod setting.

[mrvn]

You can find these "gardens" (tiny, bush sized items) around (using deconstructor to scan area with filter is easiest) and extract seeds/research tokens from them.
They only spawn on vanilla terrain currently so i had to cheat to get more than couple, 5 gardens just wasnt enough with marathon research settings.
After you get past certain point you can grow more of them slowly.

I found some gardens but hovering over it says deconstructing it gives me just wood and that is all I got from it. Is that something Bluebuild2 breaks? Is there a chance to get seeds so you don't always get some?

Or how do you extract seeds/research tokens from them?

you mean this garden?



although it comes in various shapes (i mean different trees can be garden, also sometimes you can extract not only seedlings (or whatever is that), but also some wood from it.

mind, this is freshly generated map (bitters in peace mode), and this one i found after 2 minutes of walk away from starting area.

Got that too now when I tried a new game with a new Sea Block mod pack. Maybe my first mod version was too beta or some other mod interfered with it. On my first try I only ever got wood. Now I got gardens and from those I can strip seeds.

Only got desert gardens in Sea Block though. Needs some fixup to have different biomes on the map.

[mexmer]

...

Got that too now when I tried a new game with a new Sea Block mod pack. Maybe my first mod version was too beta or some other mod interfered with it. On my first try I only ever got wood. Now I got gardens and from those I can strip seeds.

Only got desert gardens in Sea Block though. Needs some fixup to have different biomes on the map.

not sure, how you plan to get other types of biomes in seablock, since you are on desert island and all islands around are desert.

at least from my many hours (in fact it was days of playtime) playing seablock, i never seen anything except desert, unless i made different kind of landfill, but keep in mind, nonvanilla ground doesn't spawn garden.