[0.16.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[bobingabout]

I'm all for re-aligning to base game, so for fluid wagons, that's just removing the *3 part of the formula... yes, it does actually say 25000 *3 *1.5 and 25000 *3 *2 in the code, since the base game fluid wagon said 25000 *3.

[Nummy]

I noticed that there is a huge trop in FPS/UPS when fighting aliens and trying to move/spawning them. It almost impossible to fight them at 12FPS or even lower. And as I wrote before game randomly slowdowns and gets back to 60 FPS/UPS after few seconds, but when fighting aliens it is a constant drop until I move away or stop fighting them (they die). Not sure if it is connected to firing, because firing at trees does not slow down anything.

I'm on latest experimental 0.16 and using your bob and angels mods together, but before that I had slowdowns only on 0.16 version only with bob mods.

Without mods game work normally.

[RocketManChronicles]

I do like the new vanilla fluid wagons, they balance the transport of fluids a lot better. Although, I do miss having multiple fluids in a single wagon for those unique deliveries. If anything, I vote to have the mkII and mkIII fluid wagons be 1.5x and 2x.

[orzelek]

There might be a minor typo in plates - gold plate costs 3 chlorine and 1 ore - should be 30 I guess.

[bobingabout]

There might be a minor typo in plates - gold plate costs 3 chlorine and 1 ore - should be 30 I guess.

nope, it should be 3 chlorine.

the original cost was 0.5, so the transition to new fluid values sets it to 5, and then I did a rebalance which reduced it to costing only 3.

[orzelek]

I'm not sure if it's by design or not but I have bots without flying frame in ingredients.
If you disable both Flying robot frames and Robots require previous tier options in logistics mod settings then higher tier bots will not require flying robot frame at all.
Is that intended?
I'd say they should still use flying robot frame even if there are no higher marks of it.

[bobingabout]

I'm not sure if it's by design or not but I have bots without flying frame in ingredients.
If you disable both Flying robot frames and Robots require previous tier options in logistics mod settings then higher tier bots will not require flying robot frame at all.
Is that intended?
I'd say they should still use flying robot frame even if there are no higher marks of it.

it is intended. if you look at the cost of a base game robot and the cost of the frame, the higher tier robot will cost approximately the parts required to make the higher tier frame, instead of a requiring a base game frame.

[orzelek]

I'm not sure if it's by design or not but I have bots without flying frame in ingredients.
If you disable both Flying robot frames and Robots require previous tier options in logistics mod settings then higher tier bots will not require flying robot frame at all.
Is that intended?
I'd say they should still use flying robot frame even if there are no higher marks of it.

it is intended. if you look at the cost of a base game robot and the cost of the frame, the higher tier robot will cost approximately the parts required to make the higher tier frame, instead of a requiring a base game frame.

This is the cost of a bot without frame:

BotCost.png (45.55 KiB) Viewed 7589 times

It seems for me that it's missing an engine

[bobingabout]

I'm not sure if it's by design or not but I have bots without flying frame in ingredients.
If you disable both Flying robot frames and Robots require previous tier options in logistics mod settings then higher tier bots will not require flying robot frame at all.
Is that intended?
I'd say they should still use flying robot frame even if there are no higher marks of it.

it is intended. if you look at the cost of a base game robot and the cost of the frame, the higher tier robot will cost approximately the parts required to make the higher tier frame, instead of a requiring a base game frame.

This is the cost of a bot without frame:

BotCost.png

It seems for me that it's missing an engine

The construction time probably needs adding to as well.

I've made a note to go back and look at these, however, no ETA, I haven't been modding much lately, and I need to fix things like fluid wagon and gas cylinder balancing anyway.

[RocketManChronicles]

As for fluid wagons, I like that vanilla has it down to 25k per wagon, it makes the logistics of the volume of fluid better. They were correct in that those trains rarely moved along the rail lines. As for your mk2 and mk3 Bob, I would make the mk2 1.5x and the mk3 2x. 37.5k and 50k seem reasonable for those levels of tanks needed for the wagons. And speaking of which, are you changing the mk2 - mk4 storage tanks? I would suggest leaving those as they have been. With that in mind, what are your thoughts for the updated recipes for the mk2 and mk3 fluid wagons? Earlier in this thread you mentioned just changing them to requiring one storage tank instead of three, which sounds like a good idea.

Maybe I will throw this thought into the suggestions part of the forum, but wouldn't vanilla fluid wagons be better if they made them carry a more usable amount of fluid? I am thinking if they made it carry 24k and now that it is divisible by three, the wagon can have three different fluids again? Or, maybe they can make it an even round number, say 30k fluid. In either case, if Bob makes the mk2 1.5x and the mk3 2x, they will still have even numbers divisible by three.

I just don't want the wagons to be too OP, like they were in 0.15. I will admit, moving a train of 8 mk3 wagons was a LOT of oil in one go. So much in fact that I could not empty those trains fast enough unless I had a huge mk4 storage tank matrix.

[bobingabout]

As for fluid wagons, I like that vanilla has it down to 25k per wagon, it makes the logistics of the volume of fluid better. They were correct in that those trains rarely moved along the rail lines. As for your mk2 and mk3 Bob, I would make the mk2 1.5x and the mk3 2x. 37.5k and 50k seem reasonable for those levels of tanks needed for the wagons. And speaking of which, are you changing the mk2 - mk4 storage tanks? I would suggest leaving those as they have been. With that in mind, what are your thoughts for the updated recipes for the mk2 and mk3 fluid wagons? Earlier in this thread you mentioned just changing them to requiring one storage tank instead of three, which sounds like a good idea.

That's pretty much what I'm planning. Change the wagons to have 1.5x and 2x the base, and change the recipe to use only one tank each.
There's also the armored wagons too, and they'll get a similar change.
The storage tanks themselves will remain unchanged... which does beg the question, should it cost a 50k tank to make a 37.5k wagon, and a 75k tank to make a 50k wagon?

Maybe I will throw this thought into the suggestions part of the forum, but wouldn't vanilla fluid wagons be better if they made them carry a more usable amount of fluid? I am thinking if they made it carry 24k and now that it is divisible by three, the wagon can have three different fluids again? Or, maybe they can make it an even round number, say 30k fluid. In either case, if Bob makes the mk2 1.5x and the mk3 2x, they will still have even numbers divisible by three.

The main reason for the change in the first place was to get rid of the 3 part divide, to get rid of the GUI. the 3 fluids thing isn't going to return.

[RocketManChronicles]

As for fluid wagons, I like that vanilla has it down to 25k per wagon, it makes the logistics of the volume of fluid better. They were correct in that those trains rarely moved along the rail lines. As for your mk2 and mk3 Bob, I would make the mk2 1.5x and the mk3 2x. 37.5k and 50k seem reasonable for those levels of tanks needed for the wagons. And speaking of which, are you changing the mk2 - mk4 storage tanks? I would suggest leaving those as they have been. With that in mind, what are your thoughts for the updated recipes for the mk2 and mk3 fluid wagons? Earlier in this thread you mentioned just changing them to requiring one storage tank instead of three, which sounds like a good idea.

That's pretty much what I'm planning. Change the wagons to have 1.5x and 2x the base, and change the recipe to use only one tank each.
There's also the armored wagons too, and they'll get a similar change.
The storage tanks themselves will remain unchanged... which does beg the question, should it cost a 50k tank to make a 37.5k wagon, and a 75k tank to make a 50k wagon?

That was going to be my next question! It would then make sense to have the 50k tank make the 50k wagon, but to make the 37.5k wagon? May I suggest a modified recipe of using two 25k storage tanks along with the materials used in making the mk2 storage tank? The idea being that you modify the two tanks with materials to get a 37.5k tank. Just an idea. But at the same time, I would not mind using a 75k tank for a 50k wagon. Hell, even the graphics of the vanilla wagon has three "smaller" tanks on it to assume one tank used in the recipe.

Maybe I will throw this thought into the suggestions part of the forum, but wouldn't vanilla fluid wagons be better if they made them carry a more usable amount of fluid? I am thinking if they made it carry 24k and now that it is divisible by three, the wagon can have three different fluids again? Or, maybe they can make it an even round number, say 30k fluid. In either case, if Bob makes the mk2 1.5x and the mk3 2x, they will still have even numbers divisible by three.

The main reason for the change in the first place was to get rid of the 3 part divide, to get rid of the GUI. the 3 fluids thing isn't going to return.

Yeah, I understand they wanted to get rid of the divide entirely. I hate to see it go, but again, I never really used it anyway.

[Randonx]

Bob, I'm having this weird issue since a recent update of one of your mods. I'm not sure which one. But now every item that requires a stone furnace thinks that 3 Blue circuits are required to make it. It won't let items queue prerequisite items if there if a Furnace involved. But the furnace doesn't actually require the 3 circuits, I can build them with just stone.

[orzelek]

At first look it seems like you have a different mod that adds different recipe for stone furnace.
And game is only following one path of crafting when multiple recipes are present and it chose that one.

[bobingabout]

Bob, I'm having this weird issue since a recent update of one of your mods. I'm not sure which one. But now every item that requires a stone furnace thinks that 3 Blue circuits are required to make it. It won't let items queue prerequisite items if there if a Furnace involved. But the furnace doesn't actually require the 3 circuits, I can build them with just stone.

Look at what it needs... the end result (burner mining drill) is on the list of required ingredients to make a burner mining drill.
(Also that's not a blue circuit, blue is processing unit, which is tier 3, that's a tier 0? 1? brown circuit. Also those aren't my graphics for electronics.)

This tells me you've installed some kind of mod that lets you deconstruct things by hand, and because the game looks backwards to see what it takes to make items back as far as it can go in hand crafting... unfortunately, when you have multiple recipes that give the same result, the game has a tendency to pick the wrong one (I haven't figured out the algorithm yet, otherwise I wouldn't have removed synthetic wood!)


Long story short, the issue isn't with my mods, the issue is with whichever mod you've added that lets you deconstruct things.
Unfortunately, that's as informative as I can be going by your description and that screenshot.

[bobingabout]

In 0.13 I added the artillery weapon to the tank. in 0.16 the base game added the artillery wagon/turret.

I've not really done any testing, but...
Is the ammo compatible between the two?
How do the weapons, and ammo compare?
Do I need to do some balancing?
Do I need to separate the two types of ammo?

[RocketManChronicles]

In 0.13 I added the artillery weapon to the tank. in 0.16 the base game added the artillery wagon/turret.

I've not really done any testing, but...
Is the ammo compatible between the two?
How do the weapons, and ammo compare?
Do I need to do some balancing?
Do I need to separate the two types of ammo?

TL:DR You will need to separate and balance.
From what I can help you with is that the new "vanilla" artillery is different. It's recipe requires (4) explosive cannon shells, (8) explosives, and (1) Radar. More importantly, these only stack one high in all chests/wagons except for the stack in the turrets which is five high. And the range, well, the range is enormous compared to yours in the tank.

[Randonx]

Look at what it needs... the end result (burner mining drill) is on the list of required ingredients to make a burner mining drill.
(Also that's not a blue circuit, blue is processing unit, which is tier 3, that's a tier 0? 1? brown circuit. Also those aren't my graphics for electronics.)

This tells me you've installed some kind of mod that lets you deconstruct things by hand, and because the game looks backwards to see what it takes to make items back as far as it can go in hand crafting... unfortunately, when you have multiple recipes that give the same result, the game has a tendency to pick the wrong one (I haven't figured out the algorithm yet, otherwise I wouldn't have removed synthetic wood!)


Long story short, the issue isn't with my mods, the issue is with whichever mod you've added that lets you deconstruct things.
Unfortunately, that's as informative as I can be going by your description and that screenshot.

Thanks for the response Bob. I ended up finding the mod in question. https://mods.factorio.com/mods/jelmergu ... e-machines

Weird thing is, that mod hasn't updated in 3 weeks, and this randomly started happening a few days ago. Also, the guy made the mod with your mods in mind, and even used some of your graphics. (With your blessing, according to the mod author) I don't know what the issue is, but I'll let jelmergu know what's going on.

[bobingabout]

Look at what it needs... the end result (burner mining drill) is on the list of required ingredients to make a burner mining drill.
(Also that's not a blue circuit, blue is processing unit, which is tier 3, that's a tier 0? 1? brown circuit. Also those aren't my graphics for electronics.)

This tells me you've installed some kind of mod that lets you deconstruct things by hand, and because the game looks backwards to see what it takes to make items back as far as it can go in hand crafting... unfortunately, when you have multiple recipes that give the same result, the game has a tendency to pick the wrong one (I haven't figured out the algorithm yet, otherwise I wouldn't have removed synthetic wood!)


Long story short, the issue isn't with my mods, the issue is with whichever mod you've added that lets you deconstruct things.
Unfortunately, that's as informative as I can be going by your description and that screenshot.

Thanks for the response Bob. I ended up finding the mod in question. https://mods.factorio.com/mods/jelmergu ... e-machines

Weird thing is, that mod hasn't updated in 3 weeks, and this randomly started happening a few days ago. Also, the guy made the mod with your mods in mind, and even used some of your graphics. (With your blessing, according to the mod author) I don't know what the issue is, but I'll let jelmergu know what's going on.

I had forgotten that I gave him permission, but, I did.

if you read what his mod is supposed to do, it doesn't actually say it does anything strange to normal stone furnaces, just that it adds a recipe to be able to convert a burner mining drill into an electric mining drill. I wonder how he went about doing that.

Edit: the recipe does this:

Code: Select all

    {
        name = "burner-to-electric-drill",
        ingredients = {
            { "burner-mining-drill", 1 },
            { "iron-gear-wheel", 2 },
            { "iron-plate", 7 },
            { "electronic-circuit", 3 }
        },
        results = {
            {
                type = "item",
                name = "electric-mining-drill",
                amount = 1
            },
            {
                type = "item",
                name = "stone-furnace",
                amount = 1
            },
        },
        main_product = "electric-mining-drill",
        energy_required = 1.1,
        enabled = true
    }

The problem is that it gives you the stone furnace back... so that means there are 2 places to get a stone furnace, making a stone furnace, or making an electric mining drill from a burner mining drill to return a stone furnace.

there's also an error in this one: he forgot to actually give the product you're trying to make, it only gives you pipes, which could result in the same issue as the original, in that this recipe could end up being chosen as a method to make pipes.

Code: Select all

        name = "steel-chemical-to-electric-furnace",
        order = "d[steel-mixing-to-electric-furnace]",
        ingredients = {
            { "chemical-steel-furnace", 1 },
            { "steel-plate", 9 },
            { "advanced-circuit", 5 },
        },
        results = {
            {
                type = "item",
                name = "pipe",
                amount = 5,
            }
        },
        main_product = "chemical-furnace",
        energy_required = 5,
    }

[doc776@gmail.com]

Seems the wire connector is little off on the bot logistics controller building. Sorry if already posted elsewhere.

fat controller

fat controller.png (412.79 KiB) Viewed 6984 times