Difficulty curve and how to keep players till end game

[Escadin]

You can easily handcraft EVERYTHING involved in oil setups which are powerful enough to supply rockets. It gets more convenient if you automate pipes and underground pipes but that is trivial to do even with grey assemblers.

I don't get the ruckus about oil. Yeah I still remember it was a tougher than usual pickle figuring it out for the first time, especially since the tutorial ended before that point (a real missed opportunity here). However, with the mini tutorials, guides or at least some basic skill in problem solving (which this game is all about) anyone can figure it out. It's not even that difficult to make your refineries run at all. It just trips you sooner than belts if your setup is too much spagetti and doesn't let you expand or add anything further.

[MinotaurBlack]

i dont know what the fuss is about considering oil. you see what you need to craft something and then take a look at the item needed to see what you need to craft that. my biggest problem with oil was how to set it up so it does look good and not like random growth of shrooms or something. this game is not so hard to figure it out (even trains have a nice tutorial now), it is hard to optimize, but that is the point of factorio. and i love it like that.

[Hellatze]

maybe player declining because dev rarely update their games.

Nonsense

2017-10-24 20_43_18-Factorio · AppID_ 427520 · Steam Database.jpg

I know you have a grudge against Factorio, the only thing I don't understand is : why are you still here ?

By i mean update. Are update that gives major feature.


Not bugfix and small changes. Thats my point.

[Hellatze]

You can easily handcraft EVERYTHING involved in oil setups which are powerful enough to supply rockets. It gets more convenient if you automate pipes and underground pipes but that is trivial to do even with grey assemblers.

I don't get the ruckus about oil. Yeah I still remember it was a tougher than usual pickle figuring it out for the first time, especially since the tutorial ended before that point (a real missed opportunity here). However, with the mini tutorials, guides or at least some basic skill in problem solving (which this game is all about) anyone can figure it out. It's not even that difficult to make your refineries run at all. It just trips you sooner than belts if your setup is too much spagetti and doesn't let you expand or add anything further.

Unless you play with mod.


Where you memory and high level design are needed. You cant craft by hand anymore, when you play with mod.

(Rec mod : angel mod, bob mod, pyn coal mod, youki) start form bob - angel - pyn - youki.

But i hope in future, vanilla will have some puzzle worth to take on. Not so depending on mod.

[Jap2.0]

You can easily handcraft EVERYTHING involved in oil setups which are powerful enough to supply rockets. It gets more convenient if you automate pipes and underground pipes but that is trivial to do even with grey assemblers.

I don't get the ruckus about oil. Yeah I still remember it was a tougher than usual pickle figuring it out for the first time, especially since the tutorial ended before that point (a real missed opportunity here). However, with the mini tutorials, guides or at least some basic skill in problem solving (which this game is all about) anyone can figure it out. It's not even that difficult to make your refineries run at all. It just trips you sooner than belts if your setup is too much spagetti and doesn't let you expand or add anything further.

Unless you play with mod.


Where you memory and high level design are needed. You cant craft by hand anymore, when you play with mod.

(Rec mod : angel mod, bob mod, pyn coal mod, youki) start form bob - angel - pyn - youki.

But i hope in future, vanilla will have some puzzle worth to take on. Not so depending on mod.

Would you mind showing me your 1k science per second base, without a main bus or bots? In vanilla? I'd say that you haven''t come anywhere near that point. What's the furthest you've come in a completely vanilla base? I doubt you've come very far. Also, those mods depend on Factorio much more than Factorio depends on those mods.

[5thHorseman]

You can easily handcraft EVERYTHING involved in oil setups which are powerful enough to supply rockets.

Unless you play with mod.

New players who are evaluating a game to see if it's easy enough for them generally don't mod those games to be more difficult. And if they did, and hold that against the game, then I doubt the devs would mourn their moving on.

[FactorioParadox]

You can easily handcraft EVERYTHING involved in oil setups which are powerful enough to supply rockets. It gets more convenient if you automate pipes and underground pipes but that is trivial to do even with grey assemblers.

I don't get the ruckus about oil. Yeah I still remember it was a tougher than usual pickle figuring it out for the first time, especially since the tutorial ended before that point (a real missed opportunity here). However, with the mini tutorials, guides or at least some basic skill in problem solving (which this game is all about) anyone can figure it out. It's not even that difficult to make your refineries run at all. It just trips you sooner than belts if your setup is too much spagetti and doesn't let you expand or add anything further.

Unless you play with mod.


Where you memory and high level design are needed. You cant craft by hand anymore, when you play with mod.

(Rec mod : angel mod, bob mod, pyn coal mod, youki) start form bob - angel - pyn - youki.

But i hope in future, vanilla will have some puzzle worth to take on. Not so depending on mod.

I thought Pyadon's and Angel's had some issues with duplicate items/fluids?

[HurkWurk]

Well you can handcraft refineries. So technically you don't need yellow assemblers to make them.

This. And unless you are going for a megafactory (most new players don't), you don't need that many of them. Seems kind of pointless to set up autocrafting of an item you will not use more then a hand full of. It's proboly kind of a blasphemy to say that in this forum, but for me atleast it is true.

the issue is that its the first time since game start that you cannot craft what you need with what you research. and loading a factory with mats to make 10 of something while i wonder off is perfectly reasonable.
this is just one example where the gap is readily apparent. i dont think people really track the amount of game time from grey to blue then the massive gap to yellow.
it seems out of place, especially since you are discovering many things that should make machines better more often, like engines and lubricant.

"the real McCoy" refers to the fact that a oil dripping system for lubricant made machines much more reliable. yet the discovery of lubricant in game only gives us faster belts, not faster machines.

[FactorioParadox]

Would you mind showing me your 1k science per second base, without a main bus or bots?

Wow, and here I am still trying to set up a basic rail system and still relying on a main bus that quickly turned into spaghetti and is not really producing anything over 60 hours into my first playthrough.

[Hellatze]

You can easily handcraft EVERYTHING involved in oil setups which are powerful enough to supply rockets. It gets more convenient if you automate pipes and underground pipes but that is trivial to do even with grey assemblers.

I don't get the ruckus about oil. Yeah I still remember it was a tougher than usual pickle figuring it out for the first time, especially since the tutorial ended before that point (a real missed opportunity here). However, with the mini tutorials, guides or at least some basic skill in problem solving (which this game is all about) anyone can figure it out. It's not even that difficult to make your refineries run at all. It just trips you sooner than belts if your setup is too much spagetti and doesn't let you expand or add anything further.

Unless you play with mod.


Where you memory and high level design are needed. You cant craft by hand anymore, when you play with mod.

(Rec mod : angel mod, bob mod, pyn coal mod, youki) start form bob - angel - pyn - youki.

But i hope in future, vanilla will have some puzzle worth to take on. Not so depending on mod.

I thought Pyadon's and Angel's had some issues with duplicate items/fluids?

I play with that mod and didnt find issue so far.

[Jap2.0]

Would you mind showing me your 1k science per second base, without a main bus or bots?

Wow, and here I am still trying to set up a basic rail system and still relying on a main bus that quickly turned into spaghetti and is not really producing anything over 60 hours into my first playthrough.

I don't either. Of course, using that logic, my feedback isn't worth anything at all either, but the point was that I think Hetzalze abandoned vanilla at a pretty early state. Maybe I should try that sometime...
I think that might take a while though .
Not that that's any reason not to.

[Bokkie]

I restarted my base 5 of 6 times before launching a rocket. And in the first 3 bases I never build any bot.
All together 100+ hours (now over 400 hours, where's my life? ), so those numbers don't mean a thing imho.

[ross]

You can easily handcraft EVERYTHING involved in oil setups which are powerful enough to supply rockets. It gets more convenient if you automate pipes and underground pipes but that is trivial to do even with grey assemblers.

I don't get the ruckus about oil. Yeah I still remember it was a tougher than usual pickle figuring it out for the first time, especially since the tutorial ended before that point (a real missed opportunity here). However, with the mini tutorials, guides or at least some basic skill in problem solving (which this game is all about) anyone can figure it out. It's not even that difficult to make your refineries run at all. It just trips you sooner than belts if your setup is too much spagetti and doesn't let you expand or add anything further.

Unless you play with mod.


Where you memory and high level design are needed. You cant craft by hand anymore, when you play with mod.

(Rec mod : angel mod, bob mod, pyn coal mod, youki) start form bob - angel - pyn - youki.

But i hope in future, vanilla will have some puzzle worth to take on. Not so depending on mod.

Would you mind showing me your 1k science per second base, without a main bus or bots? In vanilla? I'd say that you haven''t come anywhere near that point. What's the furthest you've come in a completely vanilla base? I doubt you've come very far. Also, those mods depend on Factorio much more than Factorio depends on those mods.

Don't project your incompetence on others.

[Hellatze]

You can easily handcraft EVERYTHING involved in oil setups which are powerful enough to supply rockets. It gets more convenient if you automate pipes and underground pipes but that is trivial to do even with grey assemblers.

I don't get the ruckus about oil. Yeah I still remember it was a tougher than usual pickle figuring it out for the first time, especially since the tutorial ended before that point (a real missed opportunity here). However, with the mini tutorials, guides or at least some basic skill in problem solving (which this game is all about) anyone can figure it out. It's not even that difficult to make your refineries run at all. It just trips you sooner than belts if your setup is too much spagetti and doesn't let you expand or add anything further.

Unless you play with mod.


Where you memory and high level design are needed. You cant craft by hand anymore, when you play with mod.

(Rec mod : angel mod, bob mod, pyn coal mod, youki) start form bob - angel - pyn - youki.

But i hope in future, vanilla will have some puzzle worth to take on. Not so depending on mod.

Would you mind showing me your 1k science per second base, without a main bus or bots? In vanilla? I'd say that you haven''t come anywhere near that point. What's the furthest you've come in a completely vanilla base? I doubt you've come very far. Also, those mods depend on Factorio much more than Factorio depends on those mods.

Don't project your incompetence on others.

Just ignore him, he didnt see my slag processing factory. And have bravery to pride himself over me.

https://i.imgur.com/jSNrStl.jpg

[Koub]

[Koub] This topic will not degenerate into people fighting each others. Please stay civil.

[leitk]

[Koub] This topic will not degenerate into people fighting each others. Please stay civil.

Thank you for your work in keeping things civil. Forums become useless when they devolve to personal attacks.

[Jap2.0]

[Koub] This topic will not degenerate into people fighting each others. Please stay civil.

Thank you for your work in keeping things civil. Forums become useless when they devolve to personal attacks.

Agreed. Sorry for getting a little annoyed, thanks for the reminder.

[ross]

You can easily handcraft EVERYTHING involved in oil setups which are powerful enough to supply rockets. It gets more convenient if you automate pipes and underground pipes but that is trivial to do even with grey assemblers.

I don't get the ruckus about oil. Yeah I still remember it was a tougher than usual pickle figuring it out for the first time, especially since the tutorial ended before that point (a real missed opportunity here). However, with the mini tutorials, guides or at least some basic skill in problem solving (which this game is all about) anyone can figure it out. It's not even that difficult to make your refineries run at all. It just trips you sooner than belts if your setup is too much spagetti and doesn't let you expand or add anything further.

Unless you play with mod.


Where you memory and high level design are needed. You cant craft by hand anymore, when you play with mod.

(Rec mod : angel mod, bob mod, pyn coal mod, youki) start form bob - angel - pyn - youki.

But i hope in future, vanilla will have some puzzle worth to take on. Not so depending on mod.

Would you mind showing me your 1k science per second base, without a main bus or bots? In vanilla? I'd say that you haven''t come anywhere near that point. What's the furthest you've come in a completely vanilla base? I doubt you've come very far. Also, those mods depend on Factorio much more than Factorio depends on those mods.

Don't project your incompetence on others.

Just ignore him, he didnt see my slag processing factory. And have bravery to pride himself over me.

https://i.imgur.com/jSNrStl.jpg

What does this mini-factory have to do with anything?

[Kar98]

I'd just like to point out that it is common for gamers to pick up a game, then only play for a few hours, or even not play at all. Looking through the steam achievements of other games you can see this.

For example, Civilisation 6, which is a much easier game to get into than Factorio, only 41% have declare a war and 40% have even won a game. For something with a similiar curve to Factorio such as Offworld Trading Company, only 63% have even completed the first tutorial. This drops off further at the 5th and last tutorial where only 41% have finished it. It gets even more dismal when looking at wins, where 9% have even reached the final end (let alone won).

[chris0310]

Yo i am 2330 hours old in the game and i think that the difficulties is the engine of the game, if newbies cant play or understand alone, they can come on multiplayer, or look at video on youtube.