New sticky in General

[JohnyDL]

TL;dr - new sticky to signpost ideas from general to here as a one size fits all

Why? - As a result of a tangent discussion in this thread. We (I/the members who post to this forum often) have noticed that it's almost too easy to miss the ideas and suggestions forum on the main page and many people instead post in general especially if it's their first post to the forum, and that some people might lose track of their thread if they don't know where it's been moved to which happens very frequently with new members who post ideas.

I know there is the rules sticky and it has some links but it's my belief that 'the rules' of fora generally don't change whether you're on factorio forums, minecraft, reddit, the principles are all the same: be nice, don't spam, read the stickies on each forum (which are a cookie cutter copies, of every other sticky, on every other forum, ever), copyright exists be respectful of it and speak *insert language here* with some extra window dressing here and there.

Frankly Rules Stickies even the creatively named ones like "read this or be ignored" are about as useful and binding as terms and conditions in the number of people who will read those threads even if they are stickied, so having that be the way we point to the ideas and suggestions board from in there I think doesn't go far enough.

(YES, I do realise the irony of saying no-one reads stickies and then suggesting solving this by making a new sticky)

What? - New Sticky Name: Have you got Ideas or Suggestions for Factorio? [the title grabs the attention of the people to whom it applies]

New content: Hey great you clicked on this thread that means you have an idea or suggestion you think might make factorio better, I'm here to tell you where to post and how to post your idea. [thank them for making an effort]

Firstly we have a subforum dedicated to Ideas and Suggestions, *LINK* if you've made a suggestion somewhere else it'll probably end up there anyway so do us a favour and save us some effort by posting it there in the first place [direct them to where they need to go, drawing them in but getting to the point as quickly as possible you don't want this to be another rule set to be looked at and ignored with the most important point being right at the bottom]

Second we try to keep topics together and threads one topic each so if you have 1000 ideas that's fantastic, but try to look for threads with the same ideas before you post your own, commenting on those threads will probably generate more interest than posting one yourself and your own idea might breathe new life into other threads so please please try to stand on the shoulders of others and use your best necromancer skills on the oldest of threads you need to in order to continue or add to discussions, we really do encourage that in Ideas and Suggestion. This will help you find those relevant older threads *Link to advanced search* [instruct them how to use the forum to best effect, having gotten what they wanted, a place to post their ideas, some (hopefully many) might read on seeing that the post isn't trying to just waste their time. Some won't, but saving them the trip and extra clicks to all the stickies on the forum to get these points across will I think get more people to read them before posting and will save the moderators loads of effort]

If you can't find any previous topics it might be that none exist. So you're now ready to make your own post remember we like to keep ideas one to a post so if you have 1000 ideas still that haven't been thought of by others pick out the best 1 or 2 remaining on your list each day and make posts about them, we have a template to help you make your posts here: *LINK* [Sticky link number 1 and secretly sucking them into best practices without telling them it's a sticky they might have otherwise ignored]

Be aware it may be you didn't use the right search terms but that's okay we won't hold it against you, if you've tried that little effort goes a long way and someone else's memory might be better than search, if this is the case your topic may be merged into an older one, you might want to check out the other topics in the forum or uses the *view your own posts link* to find where your idea ended up. [how to find your own post if it seems to have vanished, will help people when a post is merged into an older topic, rather than them think it was just deleted.]

Finally it's probable you'll get a link to mods that have been made or get told this would make a fantastic mod but some people think it doesn't belong in the base game, this is normal and it's nothing against your idea. We have a whole post on why mods are important here: *LINK*. But if you want the highlights, balanced additions to the game take time and effort to get right, the dev's rarely just manage it by pulling numbers out of thin air. So mods are an important step to making balanced additions to the base game, the mods that get it right and are super popular and accessible may even get converted into vanilla. In the same way things you think of as vanilla today might not have been in the past, 0.14 didn't have the picker tool that was a mod by Nexela, and Blueprint Strings and Sharing, well that feature came from Forman, almost every major update has come with new ideas taken almost directly from mods in this way, while others have been tested by Devs making their own like Kovarex's Upgrade planner, and shortly before 0.15's release there was a mod for used to test and balance the new ways of making science packs. Some things fit with the game and others break it, only by testing them with mods can you get a good appreciation for what improves the puzzle that is factorio, what adds complexity for complexity's sake, and what trivialises the puzzle by making the answer 'this one clear way that is definitely the best and nothing else', modders are also 100 times more likely to respond to criticism and feedback than the developers. So if you want something in the game and a modder does too working with them to make it work is the best way forward. [sticky link 2 without mentioning it's a sticky and the cliff notes get people used to the 'mods aren't evil' thing right away without shoving the whole thread at them mods are useful good mods make it into the game etc, every point that's been made 100 times before but without the overtones of "not this again"]

Thank you for reading we look forward to seeing your ideas [finally thank them again cause they need it after reading all that]

[Jap2.0]

Shouldn't this be in the "this forum" subform? See, even we make mistakes sometimes . I get that it might help some, but if you don't read "READ THIS OR BE IGNORED" threads or "READ BEFORE POSTING" threads, I doubt it will help much, and adding to the already large pile of stickies might discourage people from reading them. It might also help some people, but what you're suggesting is basically just a summary of the rules. There are certainly merits to the idea, but I don't think it will help quite as much as you do.

[JohnyDL]

Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't personally I think I'm suggesting the idea. And the "this forum" never stood out as a place to post this sort of discussion (but then I never go in there) I thought it was more for complaints and asking for mod intervention/help than ideas about the way the forum is run.

The thing I dislike about "read this first" is that the title is really off putting, putting the breaks on people who're excited to post an idea they just thought of to get them to take a moment to read the rules before they post, the stickies in ideas and suggestions have a good balance of titles, each with a different way of grabbing attention:

Suggestion Templates - helpful thing to make suggestions
I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! - if I'm thinking that thought then this thread might have the answer
How is This Board Working? Revision #3 - a question I wouldn't ask or expect someone to ask me and probably a list of current rules
Read this OR be ignored! - given the rest this stands out as sufficiently demanding/funny to grab attention. And it might be entertaining rather than just rules since I've already spotted a rule type title.

Personally I think that asking a question that engages with people who want to contribute as its basically inviting that contribution. It doesn't work for everything and if it's over used it will have zero effect anymore but for some things it has power. And given general has one sticky right now, "the forum rules" I don't think it will lessen the impact of that in that one place while engaging people who might not read the rules who do have ideas.

Yes I agree the content is just a summary of the rules but I don't believe the content is the important part of the suggestion, I think it's that there exists a place place where a signpost is clearly needed and the content is a bonus which makes best use of the sticky as more than just a signpost.

Given individual signposts for relocated threads has been denied this singular signpost also helps those who have lost their threads as well as standing as a pre-emptive measure for future threads that costs the mods nothing to make and may save them some time.

But in the end it's not my decision I just thought the thought should be shared.

[Koub]

[Koub] Moved to this forum, thus agreeing with Jap2.0 on that .
Sorry my post will be shorter than the subject deserves, I'll have to go to work soon. I might come back on it later.

I think the way people start posting boils down to their education and habits - and when I say education, I don't mean "what their parents taught them or what they learned in school", but "what they have learnt alltogether".

Let me give you an example. Where I work, I stand for a multitalented expert who knows about everything on IT (I work in IT support). The main difference with people around me is that I search first (my emails, the knowledge base we have in the company, and ultimately, I google things. And only ask for help if I'm not able to find the answer/solution in a reasonable time by myself. The funny thing is that I try to "educate" my collegues by telling them how easily they could have found the solution when (most of the time) it's THAT easy. But very few actually start searching things by themselves.

When I get into a new forum, I'll usually lurk silently to see "how things work". Then I'll contribute on ongoing threads. And when I feel familiar enough, when I feel "part of the community", I eventually start posting my own subjects. That's the way my brains work.

I see some people who post in a 3 weeks old topic and say "sorry if this is considered necro", when their contribution is totally fine and legitimate. Others just get a topic untouched for 2 or 3 years, that has absolutely no value any more, and post a random comment on it.

What I have learnt is that people who will WANT to do things correctly will naturally search for stickies with rules. Those who don't care just don't care and post.

Well I'm off, I'm late for work