Cursor placement in "Select a signal"

Post your ideas and suggestions how to improve the game.
Honey.Badger
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 6:46 pm
Contact:

Cursor placement in "Select a signal"

Post by Honey.Badger » Sun May 21, 2017 3:00 pm

TL;DR
When you open the "Select a signal" window (while setting a condition), automatically place the keyboard cursor into the "set a constant" number box.
What ?
This is a small quality of life change that does not affect gameplay mechanics. When manually assigning conditions for many combinators (or other), it gets tedious having to add an extra click to each one. This could also be applied to setting train conditions, when you select a condition that takes a number value it should by default move the keyboard cursor into the number box. Also, when it selects the box, highlight the current value so it can be overwritten, instead of the current where if there's a 0 in that box, you add numbers following the existing zero.

Image

Image


Why ?
This is a small time saver, but as we all know factorio is ALL about efficiency. I couldn't say how many train conditions I've set, or how many enabled conditions on inserters, but I do know all that time adds up and this is generally a very small change, saving a whole click per condition set. The idea behind this is that if you want to set a signal, you can click to set a signal, or if you want to set a constant, you can just start typing.
Last edited by Honey.Badger on Sun May 21, 2017 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ssilk
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10645
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Cursor placement in "Select a signal"

Post by ssilk » Sun May 21, 2017 3:42 pm

Quite similar:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43306 Start combinator operand entry window text focus at op value

Same is for Names, like
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45741 Double-click to clear-and-edit text fields
Or
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43306 Set keyboard focus for constant value input

And with that this needs also a change:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34906 Require Enter/focus change to accept new log. request amount
Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
Have you used the Advanced Search today?
Need help, question? FAQ - Wiki - Forum help
I still like small signatures...

Honey.Badger
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 6:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Cursor placement in "Select a signal"

Post by Honey.Badger » Sun May 21, 2017 4:46 pm

Thank you for the quick reply ssilk! I did a little searching and couldn't find anything as concise as this. People tend to over explain when really it's just a small UI tweak to change the default cursor location.

Impatient
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:51 am
Contact:

ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by Impatient » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:13 pm

TL;DR
When editing signals or constants in combinators, pre-select the contents of the input field.
What ?
Take a look at this picture, where I marked the input field red and selected the contents of the field:

Image

When this dialog window opens and I want to type in a new value, I have to click there and delete the old number by key-pressing or mark the number with the mouse. What I suggest is, that when the dialog opens, the contents of the input field are pre-selected. That way I can start punching in the numbers right away, without the need of precise mouse actions.

The same applies to constant combinators and the input field for a constant signal. Once a signal is selected via mouse click, I would like to have the contents of the input field automatically selected.

(btw, regarding constant combinators, there is another possibility for a ui-qol improvement: When opening the window of a constant combinator, pre-select the first signal. Just in case I am too lazy to write another feature request for this.)
Why ?
I did a LOT of combinator work lately and selecting the contents of the input fields to edit them becomes a really tedious activity, when editing 100s or 1000s of values.

Thanks!

JohnyDL
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by JohnyDL » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:38 pm

I don't think it's unreasonable to have to click in the box but maybe it should be like the search bar at the top of the forum, there's default text in there but as soon as you want to change it one click and it's an empty box

Impatient
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:51 am
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by Impatient » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:59 pm

JohnyDL wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to have to click in the box but maybe it should be like the search bar at the top of the forum, there's default text in there but as soon as you want to change it one click and it's an empty box
you think it is reasonable to have to click in the box. why? what do you gain over being able to immediately start typing?

Edited at the request of another user
Last edited by Impatient on Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Impatient
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:51 am
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by Impatient » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:07 pm

and another thing: I would not be able to change just one digit of the number, if the contents of the box are deleted when I click into it.

Edited at the request of another user
Last edited by Impatient on Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JohnyDL
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by JohnyDL » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:08 pm

when you click on an entity be it a chest or combinator you can continue to use your WSAD and hot keys if you want by snapping to a text box E to Exit the inventory space or the selector wouldn't work, you're also putting in the input of an item's quantity before selecting the item in your ordering.

Right now the whole set up is designed primarily for mouse interactions in inventory logistics, circuits, in fact almost the entire game and leaving the keyboard untouched except for expert use so I think that practice continues to make sense and it should be a mouse interaction that disables the keyboards standard interaction in preference of typing rather than over riding the keyboard in 90% of cases unnecessarily.

If you see a biter at the edge of the screen having just clicked the set combinator do you want to have all your standard responses, run away, quit inventory, fire weapons cut off? or would you rather that you had to consciously disable them for the shortest time possible?


Also the delete all is if you don't change the input with the slider, if it's default is 1 you click it deletes if you set it to 50 and want 55 A you probably would have been faster typing all of 55 rather than fiddling with the slider at all and B would have to do the same fiddly text editing process in factorio as any other game or document you can't expect one size fits all mind-reading to work so it's not worth programming it.

Impatient
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:51 am
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by Impatient » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:26 pm

I get your point. Moving while a combinator dialog is opened.

My point is work efficiency, when programming combinator "en masse". So my answer is "yes, cut all responses for the shortest editing time possible. Escaping out of it is 1 keypress. For me it is about the best behavoir for the task it is made for. Dialog box -> editing. No dialog box -> moving, fighting, etc ... .
Last edited by Impatient on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JohnyDL
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by JohnyDL » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:00 am

It obviously depends on how you do your key binds, and your toolbar set up you can't say no-one ever uses the numbers for something other than the hot bar

And while I agree with you that you wouldn't want to be doing combinators on your front line in the middle of an attack for big projects but I have been there organising a wall supplies station and it happened to me.

when doing large combinator arrays though I do tend to do the math in a spreadsheet first it's much easier tinkering with inputs and results there than in factorio, trouble shooting is a matter of being able to look at everything at once and seeing all the changes in one go rather than debugging almost line by line
Last edited by JohnyDL on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Impatient
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:51 am
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by Impatient » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:58 am

Calculating in a spreadsheet is quite an effort. Do you know helmod?

Nevertheless my request stands for reasons of work efficiency.

Edited at the request of another user
Last edited by Impatient on Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

JohnyDL
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by JohnyDL » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:16 am

I agree in a way spreadsheets do take effort, and maybe spreadsheets aren't as fun to some as playing the game and they do take time and thought which can be especially challenging if you're new to using them, but I do a lot of recreational math and spreadsheeting sso maybe I'm biased. In my youth cause I learned about excel in the context of "ooh a new computer program my mum uses... wait it can do math... COOOL... I wonder what happens if..." when I was 8, so to me it's not a grueling work productivity program I only ever saw and learned about in school or work to do those boring maths things, it's just another computer toy, even if it's one that can be used to do work. I imagine most people who grew up camping feel the same about knives, or people who's parents let them hit things with hammers and take apart VCRs feel the same about hand tools. I like math and spreadsheets are cool (and if you want proof: you unwittingly use them all the time, even factorio is just a complex spreadsheet with the ability to move things from the outputs at the bottom back into the inputs at the top and display the results nicely in another spreadsheet to the user there's even comedy about spreadsheets that touches on these topics that's a bunch of fun even if you don't like spreadsheets)

I don't know helmod, Who's that? Or is it another game?

Personally a little work efficiency compromised for a vanishingly small fraction of players, including you and I, in exchange for a great consistent UX that new users to a complicated part of factorio will understand, is worth it and I think that's okay. We might not agree on that but what can you do. I have a feeling that such a change to the base code (cause I'm sure it can't be done with mods) would likely have knock on effects not just to combinators but logistics chests, and any inventory with a search function.

Edited at the request of another user
Last edited by JohnyDL on Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Impatient
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:51 am
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by Impatient » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:55 am

helmod is a mod via which you can plan and calculate almost everything for your base ingame. It is possible you will like it.

Edited at the request of another user
Last edited by Impatient on Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.

laku
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:17 am
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by laku » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:24 pm

tl;dr just saw something with spreadsheet calculation, but i have no idea, what this has to do with the original idea.

i like your idea. i see the problem with other input fields too (like to password field, when you enter a server, but thats a different story). i also cant see any downsides to this and it would simply smoothen the expirience one has dealing with combinators.

quyxkh
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 787
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 9:01 am
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by quyxkh » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:09 pm

I think just routing digits and the - and backspace keys to the constant field instead of the quickbar/whatever whenever there's a combinator screen up would be awesome.

JohnyDL
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by JohnyDL » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:24 pm

I think maybe I need to explain it in a better way

Snapping even a limited number of keys away from their default uses without warning or explanation or an obvious way to undo it in a panic is bad UI design. Since all the keys can be remapped you don't know that everyone uses the number keys the same way you do, someone using the numpad for their primary controls to me seems an obvious, and valid, alternative to WSAD and E you don't but it doesn't mean nobody does.

In UI design consistency is important so as not to disorientate new users and screw up their User Experience, if you snap to a box in one place then you should snap to a box in all places that have similar apearances. In this case snapping to a slider with a number attached would be applicable in requester chests as well but the hot bar keys already have uses there, and the snapping there is ambiguous, if there are 8 items being requested which one gets the benefit of the snapping feature, and what does that mean if there are no items being requested?

In your own inventory there is a slider for trash slots and requesting while the hot bar keys can be used to assign items to the toolbar.

In trains there are sliders and numbers attached too, but not in all cases how do you provide a consistent and pleasant UI in that example?

But if you're snapping to text boxes why not the names of blueprints? or search functions?

In the example of snapping to passwords there's security implications for that, how do you know the password isn't being used for something else, how do you get the user to pay attention to server password vs account password, if the snapping is inconsistent how do you know passwords aren't being accidentally sent as usernames that can be snooped.

Edited at the request of another user

User avatar
Yokmp
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:30 am
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by Yokmp » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:43 pm

Personally i like the idea of a preselected input Field. And to argue against with 'how do you know/make sure' is a bad argument. It's not the Suggestors Job to make shure that everyhing works nor is it a Dev's fault if someone 'screws up' his Keyboardlayout. And as long as the preselection applies to all the 'select a signal' windows it is consistent enough for me.

JohnyDL
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by JohnyDL » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:04 pm

Yokmp wrote:Personally i like the idea of a preselected input Field. And to argue against with 'how do you know/make sure' is a bad argument. It's not the Suggestors Job to make shure that everyhing works nor is it a Dev's fault if someone 'screws up' his Keyboardlayout. And as long as the preselection applies to all the 'select a signal' windows it is consistent enough for me.
But not all signal select windows have a box to snap to

And you're saying that accessibility for people who need unusual setups is something that Devs should ignore? Someone without their left hand mapping the arrows and important buttons to the number pad in order to make their lives easier, so their hand has to move as little as possible between the mouse and keyboard is 'screwing up the devs keyboard layout'?

it's not the suggestor's job to make sure it all works but it is the suggestor's job and the job of anyone who wants the idea to provide compelling reasons to assuage reasonable counter arguments and examples, and to prove if he or she can that the suggestion does more good than harm. In this case do you think it would do more good or harm if the Devs added such a feature and disabled people sued the developers for removing accessibility options from the game? I think the game would be better for a few people for a short time and then game stops being made because the devs are landed with legal issues.

Visually impaired people might be struggling to get games to take them seriously industry wide but no game has ever attempted to remove accessibility options once they exist, hypothetically a single war vet with a blown off arm being denied the ability to play his favourite game, suing, if he wins he gets damages and the game stops being made due to a lack of funds. If he loses he's then commit suicide causing a media relations nightmare and that too would kill the game one way or another, don't you think? Given that's the downside here if the wind happens to be blowing in the wrong direction. Convince me that it's worth it, convince the devs.
Last edited by JohnyDL on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nljr
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 2:32 am
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by nljr » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:27 pm

Automatically selecting the first required field is just good UI form design. This is basic stuff.

At worst, a Tab should take you to that field.

JohnyDL
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 3:44 pm
Contact:

Re: ui-qol: combinator constant input field pre-select

Post by JohnyDL » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:32 pm

nljr wrote:Automatically selecting the first required field is just good UI form design. This is basic stuff.

At worst, a Tab should take you to that field.
it's not a required field, it's not in a form, tab changes weapon. But if it was a web doc not a game I would agree on all 3 points

Post Reply

Return to “Ideas and Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BaggyK