Development and Discussion

[Zyrconia]

Resin finally done! I am the only one who finds this set-up silly just to get resin? It is not even done or balanced yet.

PS: The upper row of algae farm produces 60 plastic/minute and almost eats up all the crushed stone the base produces.

[TRauMa]

Hey, while toying about with the full angels set for the first time, I noticed some minor bugs in the tech tree:

- Cement Processing 1 should depend on Washing 2, not 1, as you need lime(stone) to use it. Washing 1 by itself so far only gives you saline water and landfill and is more of a stepping stone tech, as you can use neither sand nor clay by itself.
- Pumpjacks are unlocked twice, once in Pumpjack research and once in Gas and Oil Extraction. If you just move the techs, name and add the requirements from the latter to the former, it would fit better IMHO (assuming it's not feasible to remove pumpjacks as it is from Bobs?)

Generally there's a lot of instances where techs unlock recipes which are unusable without other techs that aren't proper dependencies, though I'm not 100% sure if that mainly happens when only using some of your mods. Once you know your way around angelbob's thats OK, but the first time playing this is very confusing.

I started working on a recipe and tech crawler script but lost interest halfway through, but checking for stuff like that would be entirely possible. Would you be interested in something like that?

[Zyrconia]

So this map I tried something new: using mineralized water for all my plastic and seeing how far I can go with it. I had a setup that produced 140 plastic/minute and that is enough to get you trough most blue science, but nothing more. So bio-processing is a really good stepping stone tech, getting you off the ground with blue science, but overall negligible by end game, where you need thousands of plastic/minute. So don't void mineralized water!

But I encountered the problem of plastic eating up all my stone, stone needed for brick, so production packs stopped. Plus, the plastic was no longer enough for my needs. Still, it took me almost 48 hours of using only mineralized water and had decent plastic. I also had a minimal setup that took oil and created lubricant, but otherwise no oil or gas processing in the entire base. That is all you need out of all Petrochem: plastic and lube. Up until hightech science.

So now I created my standard huge setup for plastic and it produces 130 plastic/minute, so even less than bio-processing.

I have a few questions that I will playtest and maybe also get some feedback here:
1. I noticed that gas fracturing has several new recipes and one of them uses synthesis gas as an input and gives 90 methane instead of 50. That looks perfect! My question is this: if you build a minimal well balanced setup that spits out plastic, how are all the residual byproducts when converted to synthesis gas when compared to the input need. More, less or equal. Can you have a closed self sustained loop that uses synthesis gas only from its byproducts?
2. If you can create a self contained loop, but instead try to convert the synthesis gas to plastic, do you get more, less or the same in plastic output. Is this all balanced? I expect a high degree of balancing from Angel...
3. How do you guys make huge amounts of plastic? I will take all the outputs of my setup and convert them to plastic, though synthesis. But that won't be enough. Maybe add some naphtha too. That won't be enough. I don't want to repeat this huge setup. So do you speed module it all? Since plastic is pulled out of the ground basically, it is probably better to speed module it all instead of productivity.

Hey, while toying about with the full angels set for the first time, I noticed some minor bugs in the tech tree:

- Cement Processing 1 should depend on Washing 2, not 1, as you need lime(stone) to use it. Washing 1 by itself so far only gives you saline water and landfill and is more of a stepping stone tech, as you can use neither sand nor clay by itself.
- Pumpjacks are unlocked twice, once in Pumpjack research and once in Gas and Oil Extraction. If you just move the techs, name and add the requirements from the latter to the former, it would fit better IMHO (assuming it's not feasible to remove pumpjacks as it is from Bobs?)

Generally there's a lot of instances where techs unlock recipes which are unusable without other techs that aren't proper dependencies, though I'm not 100% sure if that mainly happens when only using some of your mods. Once you know your way around angelbob's thats OK, but the first time playing this is very confusing.

I started working on a recipe and tech crawler script but lost interest halfway through, but checking for stuff like that would be entirely possible. Would you be interested in something like that?

There are countless such cases. And a ton of blue science research that needs something that is hightech science.

Maybe it will be improved but is overall negligible.

[jodokus31]

3. How do you guys make huge amounts of plastic? I will take all the outputs of my setup and convert them to plastic, though synthesis. But that won't be enough. Maybe add some naphtha too. That won't be enough. I don't want to repeat this huge setup. So do you speed module it all? Since plastic is pulled out of the ground basically, it is probably better to speed module it all instead of productivity.

I hope you considered Plastic 2 (from Ethane) and 3 (from Butane). Both are far more efficient than Plastic1. And you can also get gases from Coal processing.

[Arch666Angel]

Methanol from cellulose is supposed to be a supplement to your production from gas/oil, so it is easier to setup and a dump for excess stuff, but it will not sustain you long term. You can of course blow it up to extreme proportions, but as mentioned converting and using the other plastic recipes is far more efficient.
The other important thing is: Even if you run plastic 3, you still want some backup of plastic 2 and plastic 1 to use up excess that is produced.

Recipes are usually setup on a 1:1 ratio, so for each unit you have to put in the recipe you get one unit back, every recipe where this is not the case it's a "design" decision because of balance/compression/other concerns. So the balance really is in the fact that all ingredient are worth the same in terms of interchange ratio. What you need to invest though is energy and small amounts of raw resources (catalyst).

[Zyrconia]

Methanol from cellulose is supposed to be a supplement to your production from gas/oil, so it is easier to setup and a dump for excess stuff, but it will not sustain you long term. You can of course blow it up to extreme proportions, but as mentioned converting and using the other plastic recipes is far more efficient.
The other important thing is: Even if you run plastic 3, you still want some backup of plastic 2 and plastic 1 to use up excess that is produced.

Recipes are usually setup on a 1:1 ratio, so for each unit you have to put in the recipe you get one unit back, every recipe where this is not the case it's a "design" decision because of balance/compression/other concerns. So the balance really is in the fact that all ingredient are worth the same in terms of interchange ratio. What you need to invest though is energy and small amounts of raw resources (catalyst).

Thanks for the info!

For now I've converted to using synthesis enabled gas cracking. This + a bit of rebalance gave me a solid 270 plastic/minute (tested for 10 minute). For now I only crack some of the byproducts to get trough my backlog, but eventually I'll crack it all and see if there is any excess synthesis gas resulting from the whole system. And I'm also ignoring naptha for now. I guess that will give me a boost too. Then plastic 2 and then plastic 3? Eventually you will have a system that has 3 inputs (gas, oil and water) and end up with a lot of plastic, but by adding one layer of processing at a time?

Anyway, I do cellulose processing in one place to obtain wood, resin and plastic and plastic was eating up all my wood production, so I had to turn it off. What I gained in plastic from oil I lost like so. But this is temporary: I need to set up a better system with circuit conditions, that makes sure first there is enough wood, then that there is enough resin and finally if these are full the rest is converted to plastic and used to supplement my main line.

3. How do you guys make huge amounts of plastic? I will take all the outputs of my setup and convert them to plastic, though synthesis. But that won't be enough. Maybe add some naphtha too. That won't be enough. I don't want to repeat this huge setup. So do you speed module it all? Since plastic is pulled out of the ground basically, it is probably better to speed module it all instead of productivity.

I hope you considered Plastic 2 (from Ethane) and 3 (from Butane). Both are far more efficient than Plastic1. And you can also get gases from Coal processing.

I will, but not right now. I have hightech science to finish and modules and a base to build. Can't mess around for plastic forever right now.

Especially since I have a unique problem in Angel's that I do not have in vanilla or Bob's: things constantly break. Angel's is far to interconnected and you need perfectly balanced systems or something will run out or back up.

As I quit today's session, I noticed there is no more copper. Because I have no more sulfuric acid. I need to set up coke that gives sulfuric and scale it up so that it can provide acid on its own if all other systems are down.

What other gases can you get from coal?

[Airat9000]

hello author, can not I do a pumping and pumping machine for less than 2 option 1 on 1 and 3 on 3 as of now
1or1 to be ergonomic

2017-09-18_23-27-12.png (56.87 KiB) Viewed 8344 times

[Arch666Angel]

hello author, can not I do a pumping and pumping machine for less than 2 option 1 on 1 and 3 on 3 as of now
1or1 to be ergonomic

2017-09-18_23-27-12.png

If this is a question to ask If I plan to add different pump sizes: no I dont.

[jodokus31]

I will, but not right now. I have hightech science to finish and modules and a base to build. Can't mess around for plastic forever right now.

Especially since I have a unique problem in Angel's that I do not have in vanilla or Bob's: things constantly break. Angel's is far to interconnected and you need perfectly balanced systems or something will run out or back up.

As I quit today's session, I noticed there is no more copper. Because I have no more sulfuric acid. I need to set up coke that gives sulfuric and scale it up so that it can provide acid on its own if all other systems are down.

What other gases can you get from coal?

Theres a research called "Coal Cracking" with 3 recipes:
1. Coal -> Coke, Hydrogen Sulfide, Benzene, Methane (Benzene is really only needed for Plastic 3, but Coke is usefull, Hydrogen Sulfide to gain Sulfuric Acid and Methane for Plastic 1) I think this is really good addition to feed plastic3.
2. Coal (+ X) -> Coke, Naphta, Base Mineral Oil, NGL
3. Coal (+ X) -> SynGas, Carbon dioxide, Hydrogen Sulfide

I think, that you cannot really get perfect ratios, but you need to control the processes f.e. via circuits/logistic system
I currently have a fluid bus system with a single tank on each line, all tanks are interconnected via circuit wire and then I try to control the different processes via a pump.
But, I think, i will tear it down and do something with barrels and bots, because its more versatile.

[Arch666Angel]

[Termak]

Farm simulator?

[The Draf]

[quote="Arch666Angel"][/quote]

What, no purified water for plants? High resistance to saltwater I presume?

[Airat9000]

hello author, can not I do a pumping and pumping machine for less than 2 option 1 on 1 and 3 on 3 as of now
1or1 to be ergonomic

2017-09-18_23-27-12.png

If this is a question to ask If I plan to add different pump sizes: no I dont.

please do add 1-2 types of small deposits Pump, well, it takes a lot of space to do this

[Arch666Angel]

hello author, can not I do a pumping and pumping machine for less than 2 option 1 on 1 and 3 on 3 as of now
1or1 to be ergonomic

2017-09-18_23-27-12.png

If this is a question to ask If I plan to add different pump sizes: no I dont.

please do add 1-2 types of small deposits Pump, well, it takes a lot of space to do this

Why? Space is infinite, if you run out of space you have poorly planed

[Airat9000]

hello author, can not I do a pumping and pumping machine for less than 2 option 1 on 1 and 3 on 3 as of now
1or1 to be ergonomic

2017-09-18_23-27-12.png

If this is a question to ask If I plan to add different pump sizes: no I dont.

please do add 1-2 types of small deposits Pump, well, it takes a lot of space to do this

Why? Space is infinite, if you run out of space you have poorly planed

1mln 1mln cells

[ukezi]

if you do pumps with width 1 or 2 you can stick them directly onto a building with multiple inputs/outputs without the need to stagger. I personally would prefer width 2 like bobs compressors/barreling pumps have.

[chadsteam]

My apologies if this has been asked before and I couldn't find it...did we lose the 2-way and 3-way fluid splitters with 0.15? I don't have them in the tech tree and when I looked at the tech file in the mod, it appears as though they've been commented out.

[ukezi]

yes they have been removed.

[aklesey1]

1) Thanks for new update and for adding third tier of getting resin - but where to use so may resin? We don't need resin for solder, we can use it for fiberglass instead of plastic, but then where to use so many plastic?
2) I tnink there's bug in sodium sulfate recipe - 60 sodium chloride for 40 sulfuric acid in 2 seconds - may be 6 sodium chloride for 40 sulfuric acid in 2 seconds? Bcuz it too fast

[chadsteam]

My previous factories used the fluid splitters to evenly distribute many of the gases and fluids from Angel's mods. Especially when using slurry setups to generate ores. Does anyone have recommendations on how to split flows of fluids evenly without the 2-way and 3-way splitters?