pY Coal Processing - Discussion

[donoya]

I have a small gripe with the frequency of recipes that have one or more byproducts. I've ended up automatically voiding so many different resources to ensure my factory runs without overproducing one resource and stopping production of other essential materials. I don't think this will be so easily fixable with this mod at the stage it's in, but I hope you'll keep this in mind for your future mods.

What resource are pilling that much?

Tar, tailings, coke, ash, iron oxide, plus probably a few more. You can look at my save to see what I'm voiding and what I'm not. Some of them aren't as bad as others, but I figured I should set up the voiding systems anyways for future-proofing reasons.

[pyanodon]

I have a small gripe with the frequency of recipes that have one or more byproducts. I've ended up automatically voiding so many different resources to ensure my factory runs without overproducing one resource and stopping production of other essential materials. I don't think this will be so easily fixable with this mod at the stage it's in, but I hope you'll keep this in mind for your future mods.

What resource are pilling that much?

Tar, tailings, coke, ash, iron oxide, plus probably a few more. You can look at my save to see what I'm voiding and what I'm not. Some of them aren't as bad as others, but I figured I should set up the voiding systems anyways for future-proofing reasons.

Tar is VERY used in a lot of recipes...try converting it to syngas and creosote.
tailings same thing...you can evaporate it or use in the tree nurseries.
Coke is a great fuel can be burned in steam engines and also very required to glass, active carbon and various levels of combustion mixture.
Ash is used in several recipes too, you can even extract cobalt from it if bobs is activated.
Iron oxide can be burned into iron plate.

Try to explore the mod more...is clear you´re wasting lots of resources voiding them.

[aklesey1]

Oh yeah tar is really useful thing like slag processing in angel mods

[donoya]

Tar is VERY used in a lot of recipes...try converting it to syngas and creosote.
tailings same thing...you can evaporate it or use in the tree nurseries.
Coke is a great fuel can be burned in steam engines and also very required to glass, active carbon and various levels of combustion mixture.
Ash is used in several recipes too, you can even extract cobalt from it if bobs is activated.
Iron oxide can be burned into iron plate.

Try to explore the mod more...is clear you´re wasting lots of resources voiding them.

I know they all have their uses, but they're used in differing ratios to what you get them at. Balancing the production to not have one resource backup would take forever. Using more user friendly ratios would help out a lot. Like 1 destructive distillation column making coal coke + coal gas + iron oxide + tar for every 1 machine using coal coke, 1 machine using coal gas, 1 machine using iron oxide and 2 machines using tar- just as a rough example. I know there's more than just one use for each of those ingredients. As a general idea, I'd try to keep the ratios such that they all reduce to at most 5 of any machine doing a specific recipe.

Edit: I'm not wanting to sound like I'm an expert on balancing. I'm not. But needing an obscure number of machines to perfectly use the materials from another obscure number of machines is not preferable.

[pyanodon]

I know they all have their uses, but they're used in differing ratios to what you get them at. Balancing the production to not have one resource backup would take forever. Using more user friendly ratios would help out a lot. Like 1 destructive distillation column making coal coke + coal gas + iron oxide + tar for every 1 machine using coal coke, 1 machine using coal gas, 1 machine using iron oxide and 2 machines using tar- just as a rough example. I know there's more than just one use for each of those ingredients. As a general idea, I'd try to keep the ratios such that they all reduce to at most 5 of any machine doing a specific recipe.

Edit: I'm not wanting to sound like I'm an expert on balancing. I'm not. But needing an obscure number of machines to perfectly use the materials from another obscure number of machines is not preferable.

That´s part of the fun ;D

[donoya]

I guess... And it is only a minor gripe. Keep doing what you're doing.

[Iskabis]

I have a small gripe with the frequency of recipes that have one or more byproducts. I've ended up automatically voiding so many different resources to ensure my factory runs without overproducing one resource and stopping production of other essential materials. I don't think this will be so easily fixable with this mod at the stage it's in, but I hope you'll keep this in mind for your future mods.

Quite frankly, dealing with all the byproducts while still keeping things running is a big part of the challenge (and the appeal and enjoyment) in this mod. At least for me. Other than venting flue gas, I think I've managed to find a productive use for everything, although I have way more coal dust than I'll likely ever be able to use up.

[Iskabis]

Small bug: the recipes for alumina and lead-oxide take bauxite-ore and lead-ore respectively, instead of their crushed counterparts. I'm not sure why this is, since in bob-updates.lua you are calling the bob's library function to replace those ingredients, but for whatever reason, it doesn't appear to be working.

(running pY with all of bob's mods; not running any other mods that should be interfering).

Were looking into it.

Any luck with this?

I tried adding an alternative recipe that uses the crushed versions, rather than just replacing the ingredient in the existing recipe, since I thought it might make sense to have both versions of the recipe in there. But I haven't had any luck getting it to work (I'm not particularly mod-savvy, so I'm probably doing something dumb).

[foodfactorio]

Hi donoya, if you look at my savegame a few pages back, i dont think i built as much as you, but in my game i didnt find any problem with the bricks.

i was playing on a map that had lower amounts of ore per patch, but lots of little patches more frequently, i just set up a stone area to mine stone into 2 furnaces, which only made bricks at that little patch area... i didnt run out of bricks for buildings, but stone was always in demand.

currently i have never wasted any by products by choice, and have a good amount of Tar and aromatics (usually about 75% full). but am still needing to ramp up production to always have enough coke since a lot of things use it.

tailings ponds can hold liquids as well as tailings, but unfortunately i tried holding flue gasses until i realised that they were slowly escaping
(obviously the tailings pond is not a sealed unit, so i stopped trying that)

Initially i did find the pipework a bit different, with most buildings having multiple inputs and outputs, but it actually turned out ok for me so would prefer that the pipework doesnt suddenly change in a future patch because it will break all the pipes up

there is a gosh darn it water mod that might help if you need more options but im not sure how that would handle the extra inputs and outputs though.

(i was also going to try out your savegame to have a look, but i "dontknowya"

[KepperMIEM]

Russian translation for pycoalprocessing_0.3.9
https://yadi.sk/d/ureakyz-3MUzQ8

Tested on vanila game. Translated everything, I saw in the game.
I have not bob's mods for factorio 0.15 at this moment, that's why it may be some untranslated names or descriptions.

pyanodon, it is very usefull buttons in notepad++.
Alt+1, Alt+2, Alt+3
Alt+Shift+1, Alt+Shift+2, Alt+Shift+3

if change this code

Code: Select all

local recipe2 =
{
    type = "recipe",
    name = "coal-gas-from-wood",

to

Code: Select all

local recipe2 =
{ name = "coal-gas-from-wood",  type = "recipe",

then you cood transform manu lines into one line.
This will simplify navigation.

[aklesey1]

Hi KepperMIEM
U're from, Russia too? Its good that some want making russian translation continue ur work because i'm preparing for PYFE - it will be interesting addon

[aklesey1]

Did u ever thought that for construction of strong electric poles the power cable is necessary

In real life lead is need for power cables, we have no division into a routine cable and power cable is only thin a pro-wolf (copper wire) and all
And still tell where you want to use a lot of tin? May be some another alloys?

[donoya]

Hi donoya, if you look at my savegame a few pages back, i dont think i built as much as you, but in my game i didnt find any problem with the bricks.

i was playing on a map that had lower amounts of ore per patch, but lots of little patches more frequently, i just set up a stone area to mine stone into 2 furnaces, which only made bricks at that little patch area... i didnt run out of bricks for buildings, but stone was always in demand.

currently i have never wasted any by products by choice, and have a good amount of Tar and aromatics (usually about 75% full). but am still needing to ramp up production to always have enough coke since a lot of things use it.

tailings ponds can hold liquids as well as tailings, but unfortunately i tried holding flue gasses until i realised that they were slowly escaping
(obviously the tailings pond is not a sealed unit, so i stopped trying that)

Initially i did find the pipework a bit different, with most buildings having multiple inputs and outputs, but it actually turned out ok for me so would prefer that the pipework doesnt suddenly change in a future patch because it will break all the pipes up

there is a gosh darn it water mod that might help if you need more options but im not sure how that would handle the extra inputs and outputs though.

(i was also going to try out your savegame to have a look, but i "dontknowya"

It's perfectly safe to try playing my save. In fact, when I was posting it, I was hoping people would look at it and comment on it, since the base has had quite a lot of work go into it.

[pyanodon]

Russian translation for pycoalprocessing_0.3.9
https://yadi.sk/d/ureakyz-3MUzQ8

Thank you!! It will be added in the next release!

[KepperMIEM]

Thank you!! It will be added in the next release!

Wait some days, please.
I will be at place with normal internet today.
I will download actual bob's mods and check translation with it.

U're from, Russia too?

Yes.

continue ur work

Everything may be...

It is very interesting buildings in "pY Coal Processing".
At this moment i did not created balancing tables in excel. My factory is chaos of buildings, pipes and transport belts.
Not all part of it is work 100%. But it interesting to watch on factory.

[Iskabis]

Another minor issue when running with Bob's. The silicon plate recipe requires the quartz ore. There's no equivalent recipe that uses crushed quartz.

[Northgate]

I had my first test of the mod today. Here are some things I feel need improvement:

- Too large quantities. Washing soil uses 30 soil which requires a gazillion inserters to transfer which leads to power poles everywhere early in the game. In later stages this wouldn't be an issue since inserters are faster. But this early it's too much.
- Tailing Pond requires too many bricks to build for this early in the game. 100 bricks is just way too much for this stage.
- Not sure whether that is your mod causing this issue, but the normal recipe to make wood from raw wood and to make wooden boards takes 15 and 10 seconds. This leads to insane hand crafting times when crafting wooden power poles and inserters. I guess you want people to use the wood processing unit which is fine but it also heavily impacts hand crafting.
- Destructive Distillation Collumn has outputs on each side. This doesn't allow for effective rotation. The traditional method of having all fluid outputs on the same side is just better.

Hey pyanodon

What about those? Any chance of changeing them? I suppose the first 3 shouldn't be too hard to change. Especially point 3 is super annoying to play with.

[pyanodon]

I had my first test of the mod today. Here are some things I feel need improvement:

- Too large quantities. Washing soil uses 30 soil which requires a gazillion inserters to transfer which leads to power poles everywhere early in the game. In later stages this wouldn't be an issue since inserters are faster. But this early it's too much.
- Tailing Pond requires too many bricks to build for this early in the game. 100 bricks is just way too much for this stage.
- Not sure whether that is your mod causing this issue, but the normal recipe to make wood from raw wood and to make wooden boards takes 15 and 10 seconds. This leads to insane hand crafting times when crafting wooden power poles and inserters. I guess you want people to use the wood processing unit which is fine but it also heavily impacts hand crafting.
- Destructive Distillation Collumn has outputs on each side. This doesn't allow for effective rotation. The traditional method of having all fluid outputs on the same side is just better.

Hey pyanodon

What about those? Any chance of changeing them? I suppose the first 3 shouldn't be too hard to change. Especially point 3 is super annoying to play with.

It was supposed to be like that. This game will be hard in the beginning, as soon as you automate basic stuff it´s flows better and you can focus in more important stuff, like energy generation for example.

About the soil washing, i recommend use some loader mod together, will make things more easy as i said in the main page. Also, when you research the solid separator, it make things easier.
Wooden poles are used only in the game start. As soon as you make a assembly machine to make poles, that problem is solved, you can store in your inventory 50 per slot.

[Northgate]

It was supposed to be like that. This game will be hard in the beginning, as soon as you automate basic stuff it´s flows better and you can focus in more important stuff, like energy generation for example.

About the soil washing, i recommend use some loader mod together, will make things more easy as i said in the main page. Also, when you research the solid separator, it make things easier.
Wooden poles are used only in the game start. As soon as you make a assembly machine to make poles, that problem is solved, you can store in your inventory 50 per slot.

I like hard. I'm all in for that. But there is a difference between hard and tedious. In RPG games there is a term called bullet sponge which describes an enemy that has an absurd amount of HP. That doesn't make the game harder but just drag it out needlessly. And it's a bit similar in your mod. The tailing pond that uses 100 stone bricks is not hard to get you just have to wait a long time. Washing soil that uses 30 soil is not hard to do but tedious.

And loaders are very OP. Refering to them as the solution is crazy. That should be indication enough that the balancing isn't good yet. So I'd kindly ask you to reevaluate your point at least when it comes to the my first 3 arguments. I think the fourth one is probably a matter of taste and I can see that actually make it harder.

I'd love to do a Let's Play with your mod but currently I'd have to wait for a balance tweak mod.

[donoya]

It was supposed to be like that. This game will be hard in the beginning, as soon as you automate basic stuff it´s flows better and you can focus in more important stuff, like energy generation for example.

About the soil washing, i recommend use some loader mod together, will make things more easy as i said in the main page. Also, when you research the solid separator, it make things easier.
Wooden poles are used only in the game start. As soon as you make a assembly machine to make poles, that problem is solved, you can store in your inventory 50 per slot.

I like hard. I'm all in for that. But there is a difference between hard and tedious. In RPG games there is a term called bullet sponge which describes an enemy that has an absurd amount of HP. That doesn't make the game harder but just drag it out needlessly. And it's a bit similar in your mod. The tailing pond that uses 100 stone bricks is not hard to get you just have to wait a long time. Washing soil that uses 30 soil is not hard to do but tedious.

And loaders are very OP. Refering to them as the solution is crazy. That should be indication enough that the balancing isn't good yet. So I'd kindly ask you to reevaluate your point at least when it comes to the my first 3 arguments. I think the fourth one is probably a matter of taste and I can see that actually make it harder.

I'd love to do a Let's Play with your mod but currently I'd have to wait for a balance tweak mod.

I think these problems are fine how they are. Maybe he could make it a config option, because I personally like how the balance plays out.