Request/Suggestions for more balanced play vs enemies.

Some mods, made by Bob. Basically streaks every Factroio-area.

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Icone
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Request/Suggestions for more balanced play vs enemies.

Post by Icone »

Firstly I want to give a massive thumbs up for Bob for making such incredible mods.

The issue I see is that once you get to the point where you have sniper turrets MK1 and piercing ammo you've won. It's now enough to beat any monsters in the game. All the games i've played when we got to the point where we had Sniper Mk2-3 or Uranium/Flame ammo, the game went super easy mode and the excitement of the game ceased.

My suggestion #1:
This is to make all monsters have an increase in a percentage of HP as the time goes. With this, every hour that passes will increase the monsters HP by around 1-20%, of course with changeable options at startup.

This would:

1: Promote the uses of having Sniper Turrets MK2-3 with Uranium or Flame Ammo.

2: Make the end game more exciting, you will get to the point where you you have done everything and have all items and still have a challenge. The base will no longer hold forever - no matter the defence.

3: Give for example a Behemoth Biter a HP of 120k after 60 hours of gameplay (1200% HP boost) instead of the regular 10k. (It has taken us around 60 hours to reach the end game).
As it is now with full upgrades (without space science) then:
3 shots from a Sniper turret Mk3 with Flameammo destroys a Behemoth Biter.
6 shots with Uranium ammo.
More than 15 with Piercing ammo.

I have been playing with a friend on LAN with all bobs mods, nano bots, rampant, rso enemies, death world settings with all difficulties on max, except for base expands which is 10 to 30 minutes, since it's tedious being forced to clear bases nonstop. (Tried Swarm, which only produces lag and instability). We love the work done for the Bobs mod and would be so happy with a monster update.

My suggestion #2. (Combined with #1)

This one is to disable Gold/Gems/Tungsten/Nickel/Aluminium/Titanium spawns on the map until the monsters has reached a certain boost in hit points.
For example when the monsters has reached a bonus of 200-300% HP, the spawns on these Ores will now become available.
This is so to make sure you won't have Sniper Turrets upgrades until they are needed.

I have no knowledge of LUA coding so therefor I can't make mods, I hope someone will get inspired to make this mod. :)
Last edited by Icone on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Icone
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Re: Request/Suggestions for more balanced play vs enemies.

Post by Icone »

This is an example of our base and how we defend.

Walls are 18-19 squares away from Sniper Turrets to prevent Spitters from reaching our Turrets without destroying the walls first. (This is from a play without Rampant, since on Rampant Spitters will destroy walls when they are attacked by turrets).

Picture: http://imgur.com/a/hATBP

On rampant we tried it aswell and it works fine without this setup, since they still will not come near our turrets.

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Re: Request/Suggestions for more balanced play vs enemies.

Post by Cobaia »

I have the same request of balance.
Here we using Bob Enemies + Warfare with same issue. After reach sniper2 and pierce the aliens cant ever reach walls or cause any problem for the rest of the game. After reach power armor3 and late game stuff, aliens became a joke. A player can just run through bases and clean all.
We have a team of 10 players halffocused on military and expand, half working on base. After mid-game, the military guys have no challenge at all.
My suggestions:
+HP x time
+Resistances until become immune to certain type of dmg. A titan biter immune, to physical dmg, fire immune to fire, will force us to have different types of towers and ammo.
+A BIG slow BOSS with special powers and huge HP can be a awesome challenge.

I believe that customization isn't that hard to someone with Lua knowledge without a new mod version.
Can anyone help us with that?


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withers
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Re: Request/Suggestions for more balanced play vs enemies.

Post by withers »

I've been thinking about making a similar mod. It would have to set up seperate "leveled" versions enemies since you can't simply make health of an existing creature higher than it's max health.

What would you say should the be ultimate max health/damage percent at the end of the game? In other words, once you've researched everything and can launch a rocket, what should be the most powerful creature?

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Re: Request/Suggestions for more balanced play vs enemies.

Post by Icone »

60k hp would take 30 shots from a sniper turret mk3 with flame ammo with the current Behemoth spitter resistances without space pack sciences.
So judging by that I would say atleast 200k hp.

Im not so sure increasing damage is a viable option though, their damage is fine aslong as they can come close to your turrets. Energy shield is basically just too strong with MK5 power armor.
Although a slight damage bonus of like 40-50% would not hurt :P

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Re: Request/Suggestions for more balanced play vs enemies.

Post by Icone »

withers wrote:I've been thinking about making a similar mod. It would have to set up seperate "leveled" versions enemies since you can't simply make health of an existing creature higher than it's max health.

What would you say should the be ultimate max health/damage percent at the end of the game? In other words, once you've researched everything and can launch a rocket, what should be the most powerful creature?
Are you going for trying to make a similar mod? :)

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bobingabout
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Re: Request/Suggestions for more balanced play vs enemies.

Post by bobingabout »

Icone wrote: This is to make all monsters have an increase in a percentage of HP as the time goes. With this, every hour that passes will increase the monsters HP by around 1-20%, of course with changeable options at startup.
Can't, that's a game mechanic thing and why you get bigger and stronger aliens as the evolution factor goes up.
Icone wrote:This one is to disable Gold/Gems/Tungsten/Nickel/Aluminium/Titanium spawns on the map until the monsters has reached a certain boost in hit points.
This is effectively just a time delay for spawning resources, and isn't possible using the base game spawning rules. However, it might be something that is possible if you use alternate spawning rules, such as those in RSO. (resource spawn overhaul) It's not something I'm going to plan to do though...


To note: Sniper turrets were only added by request, I wasn't originally going to add them, and have been a point of controversy ever since. (undergoing several "rebalances" in the first few revisions)
Something that makes the effect worse is the 0.15 overhaul that makes all base game ammo and turrets stronger. Something I basically just copied with my ammo rather than reverting base game ammo.


I'm not sure what the best solution should be, but I agree that ammo does need a bit of a rebalance (Also, seriously, you can build a MK5 combat armor suit, and use 4 MK4 fusion reactors with 20 MK6 shields, and just go stand in the middle of an alien base, and can't die)

Rebalancing the aliens couldn't hurt either, give them more resistances and more health, make the next step up REALLY hurt. (And while I'm at it, I could add in the non-elemental gaps between big and behemoth to the base game spawners too... even though I left those untouched on purpose not to conflict with other mods)
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.
I also have a Patreon.

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Re: Request/Suggestions for more balanced play vs enemies.

Post by withers »

Icone wrote:
withers wrote:I've been thinking about making a similar mod. It would have to set up seperate "leveled" versions enemies since you can't simply make health of an existing creature higher than it's max health.

What would you say should the be ultimate max health/damage percent at the end of the game? In other words, once you've researched everything and can launch a rocket, what should be the most powerful creature?
Are you going for trying to make a similar mod? :)
I could, but not as easy as I first hoped. I'd like to be able to simply swap out leveled enemies as they spawn, based on either game time or evolution factor. But unfortunately there's no api for that. I've requested one here:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51859

No answer, means probably they won't.

Other option is to build leveled enemies dynamically on game launch that overwrite and replace all units in the game. Also doable, but alot more complex because I'd have to dynamically build the spawn tables. (ie level 1 spawns at early evolution, etc). I'll look into. Always up for a good challenge. :D

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Re: Request/Suggestions for more balanced play vs enemies.

Post by Icone »

What we do now in our games is playing only with sniper turrets mk1 for more of a challenge. This is like the only way to balance it without adding new monsters. :P
Also we play Armageddon mod to spice things up a bit. However we'll see how that goes :)

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