Bugs & FAQ

[iamwyza]

Found a bug with Angels Bioprocessing. If you play the game with the Bob's option to not have colored alien artifacts (under Options->mods->startup->bob's enemies->enable colored alien artifacts + enable small alien artifacts), then the Biochem recipes for the various colors to get to Small exist, but nothing to convert to big. This is problematic because even with that setting off, higher tier personal EQ still requires colored alien artifacts. It seems like perhaps the mod is overriding the mod option for parts of the colored alien artifacts, but only pieces of it.

[dzbanek]

I can't barrel lithia water. Is it a bug?

[Arch666Angel]

Found a bug with Angels Bioprocessing. If you play the game with the Bob's option to not have colored alien artifacts (under Options->mods->startup->bob's enemies->enable colored alien artifacts + enable small alien artifacts), then the Biochem recipes for the various colors to get to Small exist, but nothing to convert to big. This is problematic because even with that setting off, higher tier personal EQ still requires colored alien artifacts. It seems like perhaps the mod is overriding the mod option for parts of the colored alien artifacts, but only pieces of it.

Bio processing adds the artifacts at the moment, I have yet to come up with a replacement for the whole process. I have something in mind but until I can implement it bio processing has this bug. I could just disable the whole part for now.

[iamwyza]

Found a bug with Angels Bioprocessing. If you play the game with the Bob's option to not have colored alien artifacts (under Options->mods->startup->bob's enemies->enable colored alien artifacts + enable small alien artifacts), then the Biochem recipes for the various colors to get to Small exist, but nothing to convert to big. This is problematic because even with that setting off, higher tier personal EQ still requires colored alien artifacts. It seems like perhaps the mod is overriding the mod option for parts of the colored alien artifacts, but only pieces of it.

Bio processing adds the artifacts at the moment, I have yet to come up with a replacement for the whole process. I have something in mind but until I can implement it bio processing has this bug. I could just disable the whole part for now.

Well, if the colored artifacts are enabled, then you can make the big ones and use them. So perhaps short term could just add the 25:1 small:big recipe to at least let it function in the short term until the long term plans can coalesce.

[credomane]

With angel's refining and angel's smelting installed the path to making solder is locked behind a significant amount of research.

1. Metallurgy
2. advanced copper smelting
3. advanced tin smelting
4. advanced bronze smelting
5. Alloy Processing 1

That is a lot of research just to unlock bob's metal mixing furnace just to finally be able to make solder for basic electronic boards.

Going for the angel's refining/smelting way is just as much research too!

1. Basic Chemistry
2. Metallurgy
3. advanced advanced lead smelting
4. advanced tin smelting
5. advanced solder smelting
6. Technically need even more research so you can vent/store all that hydrogen from electrolizing the water for oxygen for lead smelting.

On a death world this is ~3 hours or so of being stuck without filter inserters if you cherry pick for it. Even longer if you are do other researches like logistics/automation/etc. Making the ore sorting a huge headache because yellow inserters jam up trying to put iron ore in a furnace that has copper ore. In 0.14 the inserters checked what ore was in the furnace first but they don't now in 0.15 it seems and just try to shove anything in the furnace. Would make the early game far less frustrating to 1: enable the metal mixing furnace with the electronics tech, 2: enable metal mixing furnace from game start or 3: unlink Alloy Processing 1 from advanced bronze smelting.

[Exasperation]

As has been pointed out by a couple of people now, you don't get more plates from sorting until you're doing metallurgy smelting or single result sorting (i.e. saphirite + jivolite -> iron) anyway. Unless you need the slag for something (unlikely at this stage of the game) you can stick with crushed ore -> furnace (no filter inserters needed) until you're doing sorted ore -> blast furnace (no jamming since there's a recipe set). By trying to do sorted ore -> furnace, you're not only causing yourself headaches, you're also reducing your plate output.

[credomane]

As has been pointed out by a couple of people now, you don't get more plates from sorting until you're doing metallurgy smelting or single result sorting (i.e. saphirite + jivolite -> iron) anyway. Unless you need the slag for something (unlikely at this stage of the game) you can stick with crushed ore -> furnace (no filter inserters needed) until you're doing sorted ore -> blast furnace (no jamming since there's a recipe set). By trying to do sorted ore -> furnace, you're not only causing yourself headaches, you're also reducing your plate output.

Read it again. Headaches from the jamming or the reduced plate output aren't the issue. My problem is how far the down the tech tree solder is.

It takes 40 red science to research both Automation and Electronics but to make use of *anything* unlocked by electronics you have to research a ton of hidden dependencies. Basic Chemistry and Coal processing to get access to carbon (100x red total) then you have to research towards Alloy Processing for another 225 red science. But wait there's more! This is a death world so all those values are times 4! It seems incredibly backwards to me to have Alloy Processing be a dependency of Advanced Bronze smelting in the first place! So tell me does it make sense to you to research Advanced Bronze Smelting so that you can unlock the "basic" metal smelting processes?

[jodokus31]

Read it again. Headaches from the jamming or the reduced plate output aren't the issue. My problem is how far the down the tech tree solder is.

I also read, that this was at least one of the minor issues.

Nonetheless, the tech might be a bit hard to get after introducing the alloy smelting. its hard to imagine, cause i'm not in the early game phase myself at the moment.

[Light]

As has been pointed out by a couple of people now, you don't get more plates from sorting until you're doing metallurgy smelting or single result sorting (i.e. saphirite + jivolite -> iron) anyway. Unless you need the slag for something (unlikely at this stage of the game) you can stick with crushed ore -> furnace (no filter inserters needed) until you're doing sorted ore -> blast furnace (no jamming since there's a recipe set). By trying to do sorted ore -> furnace, you're not only causing yourself headaches, you're also reducing your plate output.

Read it again. Headaches from the jamming or the reduced plate output aren't the issue. My problem is how far the down the tech tree solder is.

You'd have one hell of a time with AAI Industries then, which pushes ALL of this a whole lot further down the tech tree to the point that solder is the last thing on your mind. You just want to make electricity happen before the 6th hour passes by.

I would also argue that dealing with the logistics involved around ore sorting without filter inserters has definitely led to some interesting ideas and design challenges that make for an interesting style of play. It takes a much different approach than having the easy solution thrown at you via filters, which can help you overcome some challenges with residuals later on.

The best way I've found to get around this is having a very basic metallurgy line which does allow you to select the specific ores to be processed and picked up by the yellow inserters. When done right, the items at the end of the belt should be just the slag alone which can be stored in chests to keep the belt clean. I find this to be supremely reliable in comparison to furnaces which don't play well in this situation and also helps to ease the worry over solder to a pretty low degree.

Also, by complaining about the fact solder is down the tech tree proves you want filter inserters quickly since you're clearly having an issue with jamming. Hell, you also stated directly in your post that you find ore sorting to BE a huge headache due to jamming, when there are in fact other ways around the problem you simply haven't considered... or don't want to. So it makes little sense why you're suddenly saying it's "Not the issue".

[credomane]

You'd have one hell of a time with AAI Industries then, which pushes ALL of this a whole lot further down the tech tree to the point that solder is the last thing on your mind. You just want to make electricity happen before the 6th hour passes by.

I would also argue that dealing with the logistics involved around ore sorting without filter inserters has definitely led to some interesting ideas and design challenges that make for an interesting style of play. It takes a much different approach than having the easy solution thrown at you via filters, which can help you overcome some challenges with residuals later on.

That's no joke. I tried AAI Industry by the time I made it to unlocking electricity I got very annoyed with motors, motors and electric motors. That mod really drags out the burner phase. I played on a server with AAI Industry that had already cleared the burner phase by the time I arrived. AAI Industry really falls to the way side by then. I've put my AAI, Angel, Bob save on hold for now and went back to Angel and Bob.

As for the sorting issue I just threw some splitter sorters at it from this thread and while it eats up more space it is far cheaper, faster and more "accurate" than filter inserters. Since one of those can handler the work of a many filter inserters and won't miss a single ore.

I still don't think that the basic metal mixing furnace should be locked behind advanced bronze smelting research. It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't know the exact version this changed happened in but if I had to guess then angelssmelting v0.3.4 otherwise it for sure happened in 0.3.5. I was using 0.3.3 (have a copy still) and Alloy Processing has no prerequisite technologies. I also have a copy of 0.3.5 (from the mod pack of the server I mentioned earlier) which does have the prerequisite. Any one got 0.3.4 they can check? 0.3.6 is the oldest factorio 0.15 version on the mod portal.

[jodokus31]

As for the sorting issue I just threw some splitter sorters at it from this thread and while it eats up more space it is far cheaper, faster and more "accurate" than filter inserters. Since one of those can handler the work of a many filter inserters and won't miss a single ore.

Thats a really impressing way of filtering items on a belt.

I checked the "Mechanical Refinement" tech, and it introduces a lot of dangerous stuff:
- bobmonium/rubyte crushing: really needed
- jivolite/crotinnium crushing: needed for iron/copper slagless sorting far later
- sorting facility and sorting recipes for crushed ores: <already discussed>
- crusher (elec.): nice to have

On the other hand, its nice to have such a variety, which may lead into situations, were you get stuck or which might suit better in the particular situation. Then you always got to think about it and cannot follow an implicit masterplan

I still don't think that the basic metal mixing furnace should be locked behind advanced bronze smelting research. It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't know the exact version this changed happened in but if I had to guess then angelssmelting v0.3.4 otherwise it for sure happened in 0.3.5. I was using 0.3.3 (have a copy still) and Alloy Processing has no prerequisite technologies. I also have a copy of 0.3.5 (from the mod pack of the server I mentioned earlier) which does have the prerequisite. Any one got 0.3.4 they can check? 0.3.6 is the oldest factorio 0.15 version on the mod portal.

I also dont think, that bronze is needed so early. Im using it only for blue tech atm, which is far off. Otherwise, it makes kind of sense, because bronze is an alloy.

Anyway, I really like these mods and I can accept the existing tech tree, as far as I don't start a death-world

[ptnkjke]

Hello. I have trouble with AngelsMods and Bobs.

I have transport belt with Copper and Iron Ore.

I have Furnace with one Iron Copper and Inserter get Iron Ore and try put in Furnace.
And this occures witch Furnace (contains Copper) and Inserter try to put Iron.

ps. i try to reset Inserters, but it occurs again.

Last time when i played with this mods i did't have this behaviour.

[Mobius1]

Hello. I have trouble with AngelsMods and Bobs.

I have transport belt with Copper and Iron Ore.

I have Furnace with one Iron Copper and Inserter get Iron Ore and try put in Furnace.
And this occures witch Furnace (contains Copper) and Inserter try to put Iron.

ps. i try to reset Inserters, but it occurs again.

Last time when i played with this mods i did't have this behaviour.

That issue you reporting is not related to angel's mods, you just need to refine your sorting to only allow certain materials on the belts. Rainbow belts like the one you trying to make is impossible without some circuitry and filter inserters, the system WILL jam without them.

[ptnkjke]

Hello. I have trouble with AngelsMods and Bobs.

I have transport belt with Copper and Iron Ore.

I have Furnace with one Iron Copper and Inserter get Iron Ore and try put in Furnace.
And this occures witch Furnace (contains Copper) and Inserter try to put Iron.

ps. i try to reset Inserters, but it occurs again.

Last time when i played with this mods i did't have this behaviour.

That issue you reporting is not related to angel's mods, you just need to refine your sorting to only allow certain materials on the belts. Rainbow belts like the one you trying to make is impossible without some circuitry and filter inserters, the system WILL jam without them.

Before Iserters not place another materials in the Furnace but only place same materials as in inside furnace.

And in the first stage of game : i don't have sorters and this behaviours - is problem.

[jodokus31]

It is actually an issue caused by angels mods, because the simple smelting recipe changed to not use 1 ore to produce 1 plate, but 5 ore to produce 3 plate (i have expensive recipes, dont know, what is the rate on normal mode). Actually, I dont exaclty know, which mod changed it, but i assume it was angel to be able to make advanced smelting more productive compared to simple smelting and to handle expensive and normal mode better. (could be possible , that recipes can be designed like 1 ore -> 0.60 plate or 1 ore -> 60 % plate)
IMHO, I think its better like this, but messes up setups like yours.

You should consider to change your layout, there are several possibilites (discussed earlier in this thread):
- dont use sorting facilities before you have filter insertes/loaders. you can smelt the crushed angels ore: saphirite -> iron, stiratite -> copper, bobmonium -> tin, rubyte -> lead. it is also more productive, if you dont need the slag.
- if you want to use sorting fac. anyway, you can use metal mixing furnace with fixed recipe
- there was a very sophisticated belt filter layout up in this thread

[ptnkjke]

It is actually an issue caused by angels mods, because the simple smelting recipe changed to not use 1 ore to produce 1 plate, but 5 ore to produce 3 plate (i have expensive recipes, dont know, what is the rate on normal mode). Actually, I dont exaclty know, which mod changed it, but i assume it was angel to be able to make advanced smelting more productive compared to simple smelting and to handle expensive and normal mode better. (could be possible , that recipes can be designed like 1 ore -> 0.60 plate or 1 ore -> 60 % plate)
IMHO, I think its better like this, but messes up setups like yours.

You should consider to change your layout, there are several possibilites (discussed earlier in this thread):
- dont use sorting facilities before you have filter insertes/loaders. you can smelt the crushed angels ore: saphirite -> iron, stiratite -> copper, bobmonium -> tin, rubyte -> lead. it is also more productive, if you dont need the slag.
- if you want to use sorting fac. anyway, you can use metal mixing furnace with fixed recipe
- there was a very sophisticated belt filter layout up in this thread

Tnks for helping and explaining!

[BlakeMW]

Another approach to dealing with early sorting is to just put the mixed ores and slag onto a belt and run it past furnaces, which smelt the ores and put the plates on another belt, at the end of the belt the slag and any ore that evaded smelting can be simply dumped into chests for later use.
The output of the first stage is a belt of mixed plate, now run this mixed belt past assemblers which take what they need, for example gear assembler will take iron plates, science pack 1 assembler will take copper plates and so on. This allows making purified output. At the end of the belt dump any leftover plates into chests so the belt keeps moving. Eventually the chests will fill up but it will take a very long time, you should have filter inserters before it becomes a problem.
But as noted by jodokus31 it's actually more efficient to just use crushing->smelting, at least until you can do ignot smelting, and even then the simplicity of crushing->smelting tends to win out until ore processing. Sorting can still be useful though so you only have to mine saphirite.

[jodokus31]

Another approach to dealing with early sorting is to just put the mixed ores and slag onto a belt and run it past furnaces, which smelt the ores and put the plates on another belt, at the end of the belt the slag and any ore that evaded smelting can be simply dumped into chests for later use.

I just tested this, and it doesn't work. Because the inserter starts to fill the furnace with a random ore and as long the furnace does not have enough to start smelting, the inserter picks the next random ore and not the one, which fits. You could try to kick start it with enough of a single ore, but then you have make sure, that the furnace doesnt run out of material for the next smelting. While the furnace is smelting, the inserter knows which ore to pick, but not, if the furnace has too less to start smelting.
EDIT: The inserter also knows, what to pick, if you have plates in the output slot of the furnace. So it may be possible, if you ensure, that you dont take all the plates out of the furnace

[BlakeMW]

Ah, looks like that was a setup that used to work but broke when the ores were no longer smelted 1:1.

[credomane]

Ah, looks like that was a setup that used to work but broke when the ores were no longer smelted 1:1.

I think Factorio 0.15 might have actually broke this. In 0.14 as long as there was either an ore or plate in the furnace then the inserters would only insert the same ore that was already in the furnace. Now they just grab whatever the furnace will smelt ignoring what is already in the furnace.

I'm going to boot up vanilla and see if inserters will try to jam copper into a furnace with iron in it.


[edit]
Vanilla works just fine.
Slowly adding mods in groups to see when it breaks.

[edit2]
Well, that didn't take long. Full angel-n-bob minus refining and smelting == unbroken furnaces. Now to fine out what gets changed to cause this.

[edit3]
Now I'm just confused. Can't find anything in refining and/or smelting to cause this. smelting does something to furnaces (according to factorio) but I can't find nothing that it changed. Plus the issue disappeared for a while then randomly came back. Grrr...