Development and Discussion

[buggy123]

Also, resin is produced from raw wood. Raw wood cannot be produced outside of greenhouses, algae can only make processed wood, and even then you need methane to do it.

Edit: you COULD go methanol>formaldehyde>resin, but that requires green catalysts, so silver and aluminum ore. Not early game by any means.

[Ruin]

I have started a new game with full Bob's, Refining, Petrochemical and (new for me) Smelting. But, I run into an issue when I try to add Biochem. All the alien artifacts appear and get added to the Bob's recipes which I do not want (kind of tired of them). I have made sure artifacts are off in Bob's. When I disable Biochem, no artifacts. When I enable it, they appear. Is there any way to play with Biochem without the artifacts? I know that makes a big chunk of Biochem useless (all the spore and paste stuff) but, there are still some nice pieces of Biochem I wouldn't mind having around. No biggie if it is not possible. Just thought I would ask.

PS - Thanks for all the work on these awesome mods.

[BlakeMW]

I'm also feeling the need to have an early game option for making phenolic boards. I would be fine with the petrochem resin if the formaldehyde recipe used an iron catalyst instead of the silver catalyst. Another good solution would be a dedicated bioprocessing recipe to make phenolic boards similar to the recipe for wooden circuit boards using green+brown algae.

[gosensgo86]

I'd be happy with just a bioprocessing recipe for resin, if I'm already making the phenolic boards locally.

I started a new game where I'm trying to only use Angel's recipes and it's very fun so far. The only thing I don't like is the lack of electric Blast Furnaces.

Thanks for the great mods, Angel. I've been wondering if you had plans to touch on the other parts of the game as well, like assemblers. I feel like the vanilla assemblers look out of place in an Angel factory.

[Termak]

I was really suprised by this resin problem, i was hoping the algae wood would work but nope, i dont want to even think about this on desert areas or without bots chopping wood in beginning. Currently getting silver for the catalysts from slag slurry lol.

[buggy123]

If anyone really wants to return to the old resin ratio while Angel is deciding how to handle it, open angelspetrochem.zip/prototypes/petrochem-override.lua with a text editor, and delete this on lines 74-77:

Code: Select all

		{ name = "bob-resin-wood",
			energy_required = 5,
			ingredients = { { name = "raw-wood", type = "item", amount = "+4" } },
		},

Notepad might not handle the file correctly, you may want to use something like notepad++. It's basically Notepad but with more in-depth features and the ability to edit essentially any text format properly.

[Zelenka]

Hello!

I was wondering if any consideration has been given to adding the top-up valve that's present in GotLag's flow control? I know the other valves were based on that mod, and I've found the top-up helpful but hate having redundant parts if I don't need them, so consolidation under Angel's would be awesome if it's an option!

Really appreciate the complexity of this mod BTW, great quality!
-Zelenka

[TheSAguy]

I was wondering if one should use Bob's Revamp Mod with Angels or rather leave that one out?

Since re-vamp kinda re-balances a lot of Bob's tech and stuff, not sure if Angels is balanced on Revamp also, or just Bob's base?

Thanks.

[aklesey1]

I was wondering if one should use Bob's Revamp Mod with Angels or rather leave that one out?

Since re-vamp kinda re-balances a lot of Bob's tech and stuff, not sure if Angels is balanced on Revamp also, or just Bob's base?

Thanks.

Bob's Revamp not affecting on Petrochem, because Petrochem is already full overhaul for oil refining system add its adding gas refining system instead of petroleum gas

[TheSAguy]

I was wondering if one should use Bob's Revamp Mod with Angels or rather leave that one out?

Since re-vamp kinda re-balances a lot of Bob's tech and stuff, not sure if Angels is balanced on Revamp also, or just Bob's base?

Thanks.

Bob's Revamp not affecting on Petrochem, because Petrochem is already full overhaul for oil refining system add its adding gas refining system instead of petroleum gas

I did not realize this thread was for PetroChen specifically, I just read the title.

My question was on Angels as a whole.

[Arch666Angel]

I was wondering if one should use Bob's Revamp Mod with Angels or rather leave that one out?

Since re-vamp kinda re-balances a lot of Bob's tech and stuff, not sure if Angels is balanced on Revamp also, or just Bob's base?

Thanks.

Bob's Revamp not affecting on Petrochem, because Petrochem is already full overhaul for oil refining system add its adding gas refining system instead of petroleum gas

I did not realize this thread was for PetroChen specifically, I just read the title.

My question was on Angels as a whole.

It is meant for all mods, there are special case overrides for bobsrevamp as well.

[TheSAguy]

I was wondering if one should use Bob's Revamp Mod with Angels or rather leave that one out?

Since re-vamp kinda re-balances a lot of Bob's tech and stuff, not sure if Angels is balanced on Revamp also, or just Bob's base?

Thanks.

Bob's Revamp not affecting on Petrochem, because Petrochem is already full overhaul for oil refining system add its adding gas refining system instead of petroleum gas

I did not realize this thread was for PetroChen specifically, I just read the title.

My question was on Angels as a whole.

It is meant for all mods, there are special case overrides for bobsrevamp as well.

Great,
Thanks.

[loganb]

Hello,

Just wanted to give a little balancing feedback:

- In our current play-through, my friends and I created a factorissimo that outputs wood and plastic and consumes nothing (but power). I think Bob's Greenhouses + Cellulose chains are unbalanced in this respect. We've managed to avoid most of Petrochem (we're in the blue science era) by exploiting this chain
- I for the life of me can't figure out why I'd use the sorting chains that produce slag when it's so easy to setup the slag-free chains (and have trivial control of the relative yields of each ore). Maybe the yield of the direct production chains should only be ~80%?
- The mechanics of stretching iron ore production with manganese and, especially, silicon ore is a brilliant addition! I enjoyed the design challenges of using it to dispose of excess output of silicon ore from sorting

Thank you for all your hard work. Your modset is fantastic!

[jodokus31]

...
- I for the life of me can't figure out why I'd use the sorting chains that produce slag when it's so easy to setup the slag-free chains (and have trivial control of the relative yields of each ore). Maybe the yield of the direct production chains should only be ~80%?
...

Yes, there is rarely a need for "slag sorting"
Its useful to get the mineral catalysts.
But, I have a chain of Dirty Water Electrolysis, which produces Slag all the time. and fills oxygen/hydrogen
And i think its pretty usefull to create the green, blue and yellow metal catalysts earlier than you actually have the ores, if you do slagless sorting.

But for some balancing reasons, it could be useful, too:
I also use slag sorting for jivolite chunks, because it gives a plus of hydroflouric acid (hydroflouric waste water), which is kind of rare. Basically as main source for zinc, the rest (aluminium, iron, copper) is much more needed and filled with slagfree sorting, but jivolite chunk sorting has priority.
And i use slag sorting for stiratite chunks, because it yields tin, because i dont have much bobmonium as long as i dont extend my walls.


Another topic im currently struggeling:
I do raw gas fractioning into butane(benzene), ethane(ethylene) and methane(methanol).
The time i had plastic 1, i could use methane for plastic, but ethane and butane couldn't be used anywhere usefull. (Or i didnt find it)
Now i have plastic 2, and can use ethylene, but butane(benzene) is still not useable

I barrelled a lot of it and even created toluene for explosives, which i dont need so much. I could make rubber, which is also not very much need for.
I could use a flarestack, but im not very pleased to do.
Did i miss some use for ethane/ethylene (before plastic 2) and butane/benzene (before plasic 3)

[iamwyza]

I barrelled a lot of it and even created toluene for explosives, which i dont need so much. I could make rubber, which is also not very much need for.
I could use a flarestack, but im not very pleased to do.
Did i miss some use for ethane/ethylene (before plastic 2) and butane/benzene (before plasic 3)

Not that I can tell. I just barrelled all of it and had like 6 or 7 full warehouses full of them before I got to Plastic 3. (of course, I'm playing with omniscience which makes every step of science take the sum of all previous steps, so getting to Plastic 3 took quite a while).

[Galdoc]

Quick suggestion!

So, I've finished my 2nd playthrough, and I have found the same problem twice. Once I set up the basic refining chains for all six minerals for slagless sorting, I ran into the issue that I had warehouses full of ores I couldn't use. Nickel, Lead, Zinc, Aluminum, Tin ... I had *so* *much* of it. And yes, I was doing combination ingot smelting with all of it I could.

On retrospect, one solution would be to actually use the slagless combination sorting at the refining stage, and I intend on doing more of that in my next playthrough. Honestly, that *should* solve the problem right there.

But one other suggestion was to have some kind of recipe to "slag" the ores. This seems hideous -- and certainly not something to be done in the beginning of the game. But it'd be nice if I could somehow get rid of these ores in a way that felt in line with the 'handle your wastes properly' theme of the mod. It also goes along with the theme of 'if you want to get more efficiency, here's this more complicated thing you could do -- slagless combination sorting.'

You could turn the Ores directly into slag, or require some 'seed slag': 5 Slag + 1 Nickel Ore = 6 Slag.

Just a thought!

[ukezi]

I think turning some ore into mineral sluge/slag sluge is the better option then creating slag out of ore.

[BlakeMW]

- In our current play-through, my friends and I created a factorissimo that outputs wood and plastic and consumes nothing (but power). I think Bob's Greenhouses + Cellulose chains are unbalanced in this respect. We've managed to avoid most of Petrochem (we're in the blue science era) by exploiting this chain

I disagree that it's imbalanced. What is imbalanced is Bob's greenhouse. If you use bioprocessing without bob's greenhouses you can't easily afford to make gas, due to the need to make wooden board, trying to make gas for plastic too just results in running out of mineralized water. I suppose it might be possible to balance it out, but it's easier to just use gas and oil.

- I for the life of me can't figure out why I'd use the sorting chains that produce slag when it's so easy to setup the slag-free chains (and have trivial control of the relative yields of each ore). Maybe the yield of the direct production chains should only be ~80%?

One minor reason is that when mining Infinite Jivolite you need hydrofluoric acid, if you proceed to use the mined jivolite in the iron combination recipe you don't get any fluorite back. Getting iron by crushing+sorting other ores does not suffer from this problem as the other acids are basically creatable in infinite quantities without any real concern.

[Light]

So, I've finished my 2nd playthrough, and I have found the same problem twice. Once I set up the basic refining chains for all six minerals for slagless sorting, I ran into the issue that I had warehouses full of ores I couldn't use. Nickel, Lead, Zinc, Aluminum, Tin ... I had *so* *much* of it. And yes, I was doing combination ingot smelting with all of it I could.

On retrospect, one solution would be to actually use the slagless combination sorting at the refining stage, and I intend on doing more of that in my next playthrough. Honestly, that *should* solve the problem right there.

But one other suggestion was to have some kind of recipe to "slag" the ores. This seems hideous -- and certainly not something to be done in the beginning of the game. But it'd be nice if I could somehow get rid of these ores in a way that felt in line with the 'handle your wastes properly' theme of the mod. It also goes along with the theme of 'if you want to get more efficiency, here's this more complicated thing you could do -- slagless combination sorting.'

Sounds to me you need to focus more on your ratios and scaling down, or the better option of learning the beauty of circuit networks.

A well designed factory will naturally scale up or down to satisfy demand without wasting resources, basically operating 100% of the time without the need for stockpiles. However, sometimes you want to scale up beyond what you need in case demand increases, which is where using the circuit network to moderate and limit the amount produced is the most accurate option to prevent overloading chests with too much of that product.

My slagless sorting is capable of producing far more than needed, but circuit networks keep production in check by shutting down sections when a quota is reached. This quota is different for each ore and easily adjustable if demands change. It's a quick way to control ratios and prevent overproduction, which is very easy to do with just wires between belts and chests, no crazy logic required.

[Galdoc]

Sounds to me you need to focus more on your ratios and scaling down, or the better option of learning the beauty of circuit networks.

A well designed factory will naturally scale up or down to satisfy demand without wasting resources, basically operating 100% of the time without the need for stockpiles. However, sometimes you want to scale up beyond what you need in case demand increases, which is where using the circuit network to moderate and limit the amount produced is the most accurate option to prevent overloading chests with too much of that product.

My slagless sorting is capable of producing far more than needed, but circuit networks keep production in check by shutting down sections when a quota is reached. This quota is different for each ore and easily adjustable if demands change. It's a quick way to control ratios and prevent overproduction, which is very easy to do with just wires between belts and chests, no crazy logic required.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I <3 me some circuit networks. The issue is that if the mineral (I'm referring to Saphirite et. al. as minerals to differentiate them from the ores) produces iron, well, I try to get as much as I can, which means I'm going to get surpluses of the other ores it generates. If I have a circuit network halt production of, say, Saphirite because my copper ore storage is full (which happened a lot; I had half a million copper ore), then my iron production suffers. Is there a way around that?