[0.15.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[bobingabout]

Light oil isn't thick, but the other 3 are.
And you'd have better luck transporting it with copper/bronze/brass pipes. But I would recommend using those pipes ONLY for heavy fluids. using those pipes for other fluids causes the "unstable simulation" state, that causes fluids to ripple back and forth through the pipe.

[peterf83]

I changed the pipes to copper and have seen an improvement. With plastic pipes my train would be loading with 11.1k worth of Tungstic Acid. With Copper it receives 14.3k. Still seems 'hard' to move this stuff around but it has helped quite a bit.

[Mobius1]

Fastest way to move fluids around is by barreling them.
Best way to move TONS of Fluids at the same time is by barreling them.

Code: Select all

    Method          | Speed
Pump -> Tank/Train  | 12.000u/s
Pump -> Pipe (100u) | 1.500u/s 
Pump -> Pipe (50u)  | 1.500u/s but pipe-pipe has a 25% speed bonus due to its size
Pump -> Pipe (200u) | 1.500u/s but pipe-pipe has a -25% speed bonus due to its size
Tank -> Machine     | 12.000u/s
Pump -> Machine     | 12.000u/s

So, if you make your fluids and drop them into tanks, hook up a machine on that tank barreling that fluid, you'll transport tons of fluid limited by the speed of your transporting unit (belt, train, robot). That's the fastest way to transport tons of fluid at same time, if you want just fast transportation of fluids, use trains with tank -> pump -> train with NO pipes in between those 3 entities

[Termak]

I checked the fluid infos on base-, bob- and angelmods and as far as i understood, only tungstic was different from others, all other fluids/gases had the same stats.

[bobingabout]

I checked the fluid infos on base-, bob- and angelmods and as far as i understood, only tungstic was different from others, all other fluids/gases had the same stats.

bobplates mod.
prototypes\item\chemicals.lua, top of the file.

Code: Select all

data.raw.fluid["heavy-oil"].pressure_to_speed_ratio = 0.3
data.raw.fluid["heavy-oil"].flow_to_energy_ratio = 0.5

data.raw.fluid["crude-oil"].pressure_to_speed_ratio = 0.3
data.raw.fluid["crude-oil"].flow_to_energy_ratio = 0.5

it overrides the stats to make those two fluids thick. Tungstic acid uses the same stats.

[Termak]

Oh i didnt dig deep enough, i did notice the constant fluctuation when using 5pipes on most of the stuff earlier and moved all back to 10pipes to stop it.
Since im using angelmod currently all his fluids are just normal ones i should just stick to 10pipes everywhere else but use 5s on tungstic (if there even is that, not far yet).

Again, great mods, thank you for all the work.

[bobingabout]

Oh i didnt dig deep enough, i did notice the constant fluctuation when using 5pipes on most of the stuff earlier and moved all back to 10pipes to stop it.
Since im using angelmod currently all his fluids are just normal ones i should just stick to 10pipes everywhere else but use 5s on tungstic (if there even is that, not far yet).

Again, great mods, thank you for all the work.

Yeah, you pretty much want to use 5pipes for Tungstic, Crude oil and Heavy oil, 10pipes for everything else.

And personally, I don't even bother doing that, I just use 10pipes for everything.

It sorta makes having different size pipes pointless, since those 20pipes never get used. I have considered changing everything to a 10 pipe, but then that means 6 of them are duplicates, the only real point to have all 10 types is because they're used in different recipes.

[Northgate]

In 0.14 version of bob enemies there was a recipe to turn small alien artifacts into large ones. Apparently that recipe doesn't exist anymore in the current version. What happened?

[bobingabout]

In 0.14 version of bob enemies there was a recipe to turn small alien artifacts into large ones. Apparently that recipe doesn't exist anymore in the current version. What happened?

It's still there. or at least it should be if you have the artifacts turned on.

[Exasperation]

Yeah, you pretty much want to use 5pipes for Tungstic, Crude oil and Heavy oil, 10pipes for everything else.

And personally, I don't even bother doing that, I just use 10pipes for everything.

It sorta makes having different size pipes pointless, since those 20pipes never get used. I have considered changing everything to a 10 pipe, but then that means 6 of them are duplicates, the only real point to have all 10 types is because they're used in different recipes.

I have two thoughts about this.
First, have you considered reducing the size variation to see if that smooths out the problems while still being a noticeable difference? Maybe something like 8/10/14 would work better than 5/10/20.
Second, since loss of flow rate is determined by number of pipe segments, not distance, you could mitigate the long distance flow rate issue with large pipes somewhat by giving them an underground pipe length boost; if tier 1/2/3 large pipes had the same underground lengths as tier 2/3/4 normal pipes, that would offset some of the flow issues by virtue of the large pipes needing fewer pipe segments between two points than same-tier smaller pipes.

[bobingabout]

Anything below size 10 causes "unstable simulation" conditions, Likewise when I tried to make "Gasses" by altering the values, you needed to run them through size 20 otherwise you'd have the same issues. Basically, the pipe needs to be tuned to the fluid, or vica verca, the smallest pipe possible that doesn't cause unstable simulations is the best pipe for flow and throughput.

[chrisgbk]

Fastest way to move fluids around is by barreling them.
Best way to move TONS of Fluids at the same time is by barreling them.

Code: Select all

    Method          | Speed
Pump -> Tank/Train  | 12.000u/s
Pump -> Pipe (100u) | 1.500u/s 
Pump -> Pipe (50u)  | 1.500u/s but pipe-pipe has a 25% speed bonus due to its size
Pump -> Pipe (200u) | 1.500u/s but pipe-pipe has a -25% speed bonus due to its size
Tank -> Machine     | 12.000u/s
Pump -> Machine     | 12.000u/s

So, if you make your fluids and drop them into tanks, hook up a machine on that tank barreling that fluid, you'll transport tons of fluid limited by the speed of your transporting unit (belt, train, robot). That's the fastest way to transport tons of fluid at same time, if you want just fast transportation of fluids, use trains with tank -> pump -> train with NO pipes in between those 3 entities

Your table is quite off for pumps/pipes. Pulling from a tank with a pump, using undergrounds spaced between pumps will net 2700u/s for 50u pipes, 3000u/s for 100u pipes and 3600u/s for 200u pipes. Using single pipe segments between pumps will net 3000u/s for 50u pipes, 5400u/s for 100u pipes, and 6000u/s for 200u pipes. The throughput entirely depends on how long the segments are. This flow can be maintained for any distance as long as you keep using pumps.

As well, an assembly machine 3 with 12 beacons and full speed modules only barrels/unbarrels at 2812u/s. It's quite easy to build a pipe that can transport fluid faster. Until you start doing the barrels in parallel with multiple assemblers.

[RocketManChronicles]

Anything below size 10 causes "unstable simulation" conditions, Likewise when I tried to make "Gasses" by altering the values, you needed to run them through size 20 otherwise you'd have the same issues. Basically, the pipe needs to be tuned to the fluid, or vica verca, the smallest pipe possible that doesn't cause unstable simulations is the best pipe for flow and throughput.

I feel this is a lost opportunity to have various "fluids" in the game to act with their respective properties. I am not saying this is on you Bob, but more on the devs to have various "light," heavy," and "gas" fluids in the game. Intuitively, you would want large size 20 pipes for gases and small size 5 pipes for the heavy liquids. It is a shame, at least in my eyes, that the game cannot handle variations in the fluid properties to allow this to be modded. If anything, I recommend leaving the pipes as they are, as it is nice to have the variety available. And just like you had in your example, I have found use of the size 20 pipes for lengths of three or less to be satisfactory in moving a LOT of fluid that short distance.

[jodokus31]

Weirdly, all my "Grenade Damage" research has been reset. I'm positive I've researched the first two levels a few days ago. Weird fluke? Some update cause it? Just thought I'd mention it.

Question: So, Bob's custom bullets... The ones you make with cordite. I've never tried these, but I'm considering building a production line for them. I noticed their damage is a fair step-up from the red bullets you get in the early game. This looks exciting, but I'm curious how well the progression now flows to the uranium bullets you get in the late game in vanilla. Should we perhaps insert the uranium bullets into this tech line with the custom bullets? That might be really cool.

Because right now, you can get uranium bullets by simply crafting a piece of U238 with a vanilla red bullet magazine to get a jump to 24+9.6 (from 8+3.2). Bob's custom bullets do 16+6.4 which is a great middle-ground. Though getting uranium bullets DOES avoid all the complex chemistry work of that middle ground. Its tech requirement is 1000x high tech science, so it's definitely late-game. But it is not, by any means, complex to produce them.

Thoughts?

I've just setup the bob's bullets and it was really complicated and fun. I also cannot decide, which ones should be the best for the perimeter. I think, i'll go with electric bullets, as they seem to perform very well against my 87% evo factor biters. Or mix it up?

But, it would be really nice, if the uranium bullets would be of same complexity level to be more encouraged to setup the bullets. And the bullets should be more prominent or the lasers less. Its so easy, to make big solar arrays and lasers only

I'm also a fan of the flamethrower turrets, because they are really effective (at least in vanilla) and dont cost or rely on power. But there are no higher tiers, unless i didnt find them. I dont know, if they are sufficient, when evolution is maxxed. I want to try it without lasers, because i only run steam engines atm. later i might use nuclear or find a big dessert for solar. But i like the challenge instead of just plaster everything with solarpanels (also challenging to have enough fuel and producing really much pollution)

[bobingabout]

I really can't remember which are best, but you'll probably find that Electric are good against most biters (all biters have piercing, poison and acid resistance, all spitters have electric, fire and explosive resistance), because big biters have a piercing variant, but no electric, where the next level up has acid and explosive variants, and the level after that fire and poison variants (if I'm remembering correctly), leaving only a gap for electric. By the same logic, Spitters would therefore have the gap of piercing.

However, Acid and Explosive have an AOE, and Poison and Fire leave a DOT where they hit, so it depends if you want single target or multiple target damages.

[misho104]

Hi, I'm afraid this random thought of mine is within the scope of a previous discussion such as

Bob already answered, but he didn't mention why the oil product quantities are the same for both recipes. In reality, sulfur is a bi-product of oil processing; making it does not consume useful oil products, it's a free output. The reason a recipe exists that doesn't produce sulfur is because you can quickly end up with more sulfur than you know what to do with, so that provides a way of disabling sulfur output.

but I suppose the "oil-processing-with-sulfur" recipe is intended to give 2 sulfur, instead of 20 sulfur (equivalent to 200 sulfur-dioxide), considering the other recipes.

[bobingabout]

... yes, that must be a mistake I made, I multiplied everything by 10 during the migration from 0.14 to 0.15 instead of just the fluids.

[jodokus31]

I really can't remember which are best, but you'll probably find that Electric are good against most biters (all biters have piercing, poison and acid resistance, all spitters have electric, fire and explosive resistance), because big biters have a piercing variant, but no electric, where the next level up has acid and explosive variants, and the level after that fire and poison variants (if I'm remembering correctly), leaving only a gap for electric. By the same logic, Spitters would therefore have the gap of piercing.

However, Acid and Explosive have an AOE, and Poison and Fire leave a DOT where they hit, so it depends if you want single target or multiple target damages.

Thanks, for the explanations. I'll think, i will go with piercing in the sniper turrets to clear out the spitters fast and electric in the normal turrets to fast clean the biters, which broke though, and the flameturrets will help, if its a huge attack

[bobingabout]

I really can't remember which are best, but you'll probably find that Electric are good against most biters (all biters have piercing, poison and acid resistance, all spitters have electric, fire and explosive resistance), because big biters have a piercing variant, but no electric, where the next level up has acid and explosive variants, and the level after that fire and poison variants (if I'm remembering correctly), leaving only a gap for electric. By the same logic, Spitters would therefore have the gap of piercing.

However, Acid and Explosive have an AOE, and Poison and Fire leave a DOT where they hit, so it depends if you want single target or multiple target damages.

Thanks, for the explanations. I'll think, i will go with piercing in the sniper turrets to clear out the spitters fast and electric in the normal turrets to fast clean the biters, which broke though, and the flameturrets will help, if its a huge attack

sounds logical.

[mzolk]

Not sure where to ask this, but is there any plans to integrate depleted uranium into Bobs Warfare? Making cordite propelled bullets that use the uranium instead of tungsten for a higher tier AP round?

LOVE the mod by the way, absolutely brilliant