I don't consider it abuse however. The Devs clearly intend for robots to be an endgame solution to solve all problems. They solve all layout problems, they solve the majority of bandwidth problems (the few other bandwidth problems are solved by trains). Its fine to have overpowered stuff in the game, as long as its locked behind an appropriate level of research. Indeed: Requester Chests being locked to Yellow Science exactly solves the problem elegantly. It means that you have to work with layout issues through Green, Blue, Purple, and Yellow Science before you get the magic device (requester chests) that negate layout issues. That's... perfectly fine.jonatkins wrote:Well, given the logistics system is far older than combinators (I checked old changelogs - logistics <= 0.6, combinators first in 0.12), I find it unlikely it was ever the original plan. I feel that logistics was never intended to be better than belts, but by overloading things with sheer numbers of bots + roboports players found ways of pushing them beyond their intended capabilities.dragontamer5788 wrote:And I've suggested a solution, which is what I think is the developer's intent: Use Combinators and Mixed Belts / Sushi Belts for that situation.
Changing the research requirements for this one part of the system seems so out of place, and a knee-jerk change from the devs to 'fix' this abuse. But it's ended up annoying a bunch of players like me who never even tried pushing the logistics system like that.
And as I stated earlier: there are plenty of tools in the Red / Green belt science theater that solve that problem. Combinators can be used to calculate what objects are on belts to create a "logistic system light" that's practical to use as soon as Construction Bots are researched. The use of Cargo Wagons and Filter inserters (erm... outserters??) can accept "generally" any item and then organize them into neat little belts. And of course, the tried-and-true strategy of "Main Bus" exists. There's a variety of strategies available to make an extendable factory. I understand that its frustrating when you first realize that your design doesn't scale to the midgame... but that frustration is canceled out by the joy of coming up with a layout strategy that actually works. And there are many such strategies available.As I've said, in the two games I've played through I ended up frustrated without requester chests, and ended up setting up single assembler production of the required science packs, etc and, as there was no space to belt things around, ended up spending a couple of hours manually ferrying items around until I had enough. So while tedious and not fun, the 0.15 change hasn't actually fixed anything. I then got lazy, and converted this temporary science production to use requester chests, and ended up researching things like MK2 power armor earlier than I would have otherwise done, and completely skipped using things like tanks.
Indeed: the #1 solution... which is "refactoring", becomes as easy as "Deconstruction Planner" with Construction Bots. Delete Everything, have your Construction Bots return everything to Storage Chests. Then, design an extendable design and plop down blue prints. Realize that you need 5-more square right here to make things work? Blueprint your current factory, deconstruction-planner it. Then shift everything over by 5-squares. Its... kind of easy, and automated. The Construction Bots and blueprints already solve any layout concerns automatically. Just not as EZ-mode as Requester Chests.
So true, Layout issues are a major concern in the mid-game. But the game provides so many opportunities for the creative player to actually solve any layout problems, even without Requester Chests. Its just that when Requester Chests are finally unlocked, all of those layout concerns become straight up trivial, negating all of the other strategies in the game. Logistic Bots just fly point-to-point through the air, solving any possible issues.