[0.15.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[orzelek]

New inserters attribute seems trivial to fix in data-updates.
I'm not sure what with new high res graphics they received. It seems to work for normal and fast ones. And they look much better
You might need to do something with express ones - don't have them yet in this save so can't check.


Also - did something change in terms of sodium hydroxide usage/production?
I've ended up in strage position where I need to vent chlorine to make more to produce modules
(Venting hydrogen or using it up for solid fuel is standard - chorine not so much)

For the new attribute I added this in data-updates.lua inside loop:

Code: Select all

  inserter.allow_custom_vectors = true

Edit:
There is also this in modding section - no idea what it will cause:
Changed default value of hand_length in inserter prototype to 0.75, to make inserter shadow look nicer.

[bobingabout]

For the new attribute I added this in data-updates.lua inside loop:

Code: Select all

  inserter.allow_custom_vectors = true

yup, that's what I Was thinking

Edit:
There is also this in modding section - no idea what it will cause:
Changed default value of hand_length in inserter prototype to 0.75, to make inserter shadow look nicer.

nothing. I already run a script to change all without a hand length to 1.5, so that they don't look dumb when you make them long.

EDIT: Update released. Should be fixed.

[Recon777]

Just noticed that the Nitric Acid recipe uses regular water instead of pure water.
I'm guessing this would be a pure water thing?

[bobingabout]

No. it not using pure water was intentional.

Pure water, as a general rule, is only "needed" when purity is essential, for something like Electrolysis. when it comes to something like making an acid solution, the purity isn't all that important, so regular "tap water" can be used.

[CitizenJoe]

Uhh... bob? Is it still possible to use the pumps from the water bore research to get water wherever you want? All they seem to have is barrelling recipes.

[bobingabout]

Uhh... bob? Is it still possible to use the pumps from the water bore research to get water wherever you want? All they seem to have is barrelling recipes.

Yes.
Check the mod options.
main menu -> options -> mods.

[Recon777]

Weirdly, all my "Grenade Damage" research has been reset. I'm positive I've researched the first two levels a few days ago. Weird fluke? Some update cause it? Just thought I'd mention it.

Question: So, Bob's custom bullets... The ones you make with cordite. I've never tried these, but I'm considering building a production line for them. I noticed their damage is a fair step-up from the red bullets you get in the early game. This looks exciting, but I'm curious how well the progression now flows to the uranium bullets you get in the late game in vanilla. Should we perhaps insert the uranium bullets into this tech line with the custom bullets? That might be really cool.

Because right now, you can get uranium bullets by simply crafting a piece of U238 with a vanilla red bullet magazine to get a jump to 24+9.6 (from 8+3.2). Bob's custom bullets do 16+6.4 which is a great middle-ground. Though getting uranium bullets DOES avoid all the complex chemistry work of that middle ground. Its tech requirement is 1000x high tech science, so it's definitely late-game. But it is not, by any means, complex to produce them.

Thoughts?

[orzelek]

I used the bob's ammo and it was really good before we had uranium ammo.
It is really heavy on process to get it - it might be a bit overdone. I recall main issue was insane wood consumption of it - it was eating up more then electronics or on similar levels. It was some time ago and I'm not sure if it has been tweaked or not.

Currenylt I'm looking at it and going like... naaah to much work and piercing ones still work for me. I'd rather get a tank

[Recon777]

I used the bob's ammo and it was really good before we had uranium ammo.
It is really heavy on process to get it - it might be a bit overdone. I recall main issue was insane wood consumption of it - it was eating up more then electronics or on similar levels. It was some time ago and I'm not sure if it has been tweaked or not.

Currenylt I'm looking at it and going like... naaah to much work and piercing ones still work for me. I'd rather get a tank

That's the beauty of the blueprint library though. Once you've designed it, it should be a fairly straightforward process to build it again.

Looking at the damage levels of the regular red bullets, it seems like a pretty significant step up after going through that process for the next tier bullets. But the uranium ones... Oh boy I can't wait to see what those do vs Bob's higher end enemies. I just think it may be worth changing the uranium bullet recipe so that it is a part of the rest of Bob's progression.

[Recon777]

In case anyone ever questions why Bob's inserters are superior:



That's 96 electric furnaces!

INB4 "Yellow belts!" Yes, this is just a layout prototype.

[NewSwiss]

In case anyone ever questions why Bob's inserters are superior:

No, what they question is whether they're balanced. It could be argued that variable length and angle inserters takes some challenge out of the game. I would disagree, as IMO it just changes the level of design challenge, making it more complicated. Alternatively, have you seen the stupid-high throughput you can get with narrow angles? You can saturate a yellow belt with only 2 basic inserters and +1 stack bonus. Don't get me wrong, I love Bob's inserters, but I'm just saying it's not the superiority that is questioned.

[orzelek]

In case anyone ever questions why Bob's inserters are superior:

No, what they question is whether they're balanced. It could be argued that variable length and angle inserters takes some challenge out of the game. I would disagree, as IMO it just changes the level of design challenge, making it more complicated. Alternatively, have you seen the stupid-high throughput you can get with narrow angles? You can saturate a yellow belt with only 2 basic inserters and +1 stack bonus. Don't get me wrong, I love Bob's inserters, but I'm just saying it's not the superiority that is questioned.

It's not what the update was about really.
It was mostly about blueprints - if you took blueprint of that furnace setup you would be able to build it in vanilla and it would still work. With additional inserter attribute it can be deemed invalid if your inserters don't have the attribute set.

[British_Petroleum]

In case anyone ever questions why Bob's inserters are superior:

No, what they question is whether they're balanced. It could be argued that variable length and angle inserters takes some challenge out of the game. I would disagree, as IMO it just changes the level of design challenge, making it more complicated. Alternatively, have you seen the stupid-high throughput you can get with narrow angles? You can saturate a yellow belt with only 2 basic inserters and +1 stack bonus. Don't get me wrong, I love Bob's inserters, but I'm just saying it's not the superiority that is questioned.

I also really like the configurable inserters. It allows a whole new world of clever designs, and it makes sense that they have greater throughout when they don't have to move as far.

What I think is overpowered is that any inserter gets the stack bonuses. It used to be that you'd only get the bonus when moving items between chests/machines. The first stack tech only costs green science and it doubles the throughput of all inserters

[bobingabout]

I'm beginning to understand now.

so if you load this blueprint in vanilla... before 0.15.17, it would work and be placed as is, even though you shouldn't be able to configure inserters like that.
Since 0.15.17, although the blueprint will still be there, the inserters won't have those right angles in them.

[Recon777]

I'm beginning to understand now.

so if you load this blueprint in vanilla... before 0.15.17, it would work and be placed as is, even though you shouldn't be able to configure inserters like that.
Since 0.15.17, although the blueprint will still be there, the inserters won't have those right angles in them.

Seriously? I never considered that modded blueprints would work in vanilla. Always figured they'd be invalid objects or otherwise break.

I did say in reddit that vanilla really ought to have config options like this, but I got a lot of people whining that this would be a terrible thing. I honestly don't understand people like that. I mean, I LOVE complexity. But I HATE tedium. And the restriction of having to work your design around the fact that inserters are 180 degrees only is just pure tedium. I was rather thrilled to come up with that config for making steel though! Not belting the intermediate iron saved me a ton of space. I love being able to make compact and efficient designs, preferably with an absolute minimum of unused ground space. And Bob's inserters are absolutely essential for that.

[Catfight]

I've been playing around with pipes a bit to see how flow works given the size of the pipes and to my surprise, it seems like the smallest pipes are simply hands down superior to everything else. Fluid flows through them much much faster than the larger pipes. Using copper pipes for Multi phase oil and the stone pipes from the gas wells, The flow rate was about 2x for the oil and they filled up their tanks with far more fluid way quicker despite a very similar supply rate, even putting two pumps on the stone pipeline didn't increase the flow to be above that of the oil.

Is this working as intended?

[orzelek]

I've been playing around with pipes a bit to see how flow works given the size of the pipes and to my surprise, it seems like the smallest pipes are simply hands down superior to everything else. Fluid flows through them much much faster than the larger pipes. Using copper pipes for Multi phase oil and the stone pipes from the gas wells, The flow rate was about 2x for the oil and they filled up their tanks with far more fluid way quicker despite a very similar supply rate, even putting two pumps on the stone pipeline didn't increase the flow to be above that of the oil.

Is this working as intended?

Fluid system is... quirky to say it gently.
Smaller pipes might have oscillation issues but they do seem faster.

It's strange that even with pumps bigger one is not a match at least.

[orzelek]

Is it possible that warefare mod changes personal laser defence in a way that prevents laser upgrades from working on it?

I'm pretty sure that in vanilla they apply to personal defence now but they don't seem to for me with bob's mod set.

[bobingabout]

It has it's own research separate from laser turret damage doesn't it?

[orzelek]

It has it's own research separate from laser turret damage doesn't it?

Actually I must have been imagining things - it doesn't upgrade in vanilla.
I had a mod for it I think. Need to dig it out and update to 0.15.