Development and Discussion

[Basilio]

No, but someone posted a fix in the bug/FAQ thread. Just need to copy paste something into one of the recipe files.

Well, that I can figure out myself. However, would be nice if it was fixed in the original mod file, so I wouldn't have to re-do it every time a mod update is released.

[aklesey1]

Fragment from a conversation with pyanodon, we discussed production of chrome viewtopic.php?f=94&t=32272&start=440

It's a patch to have the two ores (manganese and chrome) in the bob ores refining, for the standalone version of the mods they will come from regular refining and rare earth metals will come from the washing, to go into production of magnets and electronics.

Sounds really intriguingly, it is possible to learn in more detail? Especially I am interested in magnets, it that brand new, was not applied earlier

[NewSwiss]

intriguingly

Not related, but this word took me like 30 seconds to figure out. My first interpretation was

in-tri-gu-ing-ly

I was like "WTF is this shit? What was he even trying to say?"

But according to google it is a valid conjugation of intriguing (though intriguing would have been more valid here) –

https://www.google.com/search?safe=off& ... triguingly

[Catfight]

In my current playthrough of bobs + angel I've run into the problem of there being not enough demand for lead besides batteries. It's used as a catalyst for glass and nickel but otherwise all it's used for is batteries, and with my current playthrough where i'll possibly avoid using a lot of robots and accumulators, there's not a massive need for batteries besides the science pack 3. Granted i haven't fully gone through to successfully make the sci 3 packs yet. Am I perhaps supposed to use more straight Chunks -> specific ore sorting to avoid building up too much lead or is there something else I'm missing?
PS: You could consider replacing steel pipes with lead pipes, to give a usage for it. Lead pipes have been used extensively in the past and besides well, it's toxicity towards humans there shouldn't be a problem mechanics wise. Steel pipes are a bit expensive to make when all it does is give five more distance compared to the iron ones.

[Light]

So after the 0.15 update and waiting for a couple mods to update, I've revisited all the smelting designs to make them megabase worthy by turning them into 8 purple belts of each ingot. However I stopped after making the most used metals as one question crossed my mind.

Have you decided on the proper ratios for smelting yet? I remember you mentioned that they're incomplete, thus set at a 1:1 ratio for now, but it has been quite some time since that was said. While newer material has been added, the ratios are still the same.

Currently there's no reason to mix metals due to the 1:1 ratio, unless mixing with a cheaper ingot is possible to save some more expensive intermediates. So it would be nice to see a glimpse of the planned ratios to know how worthy triple metal mixing would be to get into, especially when those additional ingots are more expensive than the base ingot.

[hoho]

Currently there's no reason to mix metals due to the 1:1 ratio, unless mixing with a cheaper ingot is possible to save some more expensive intermediates. So it would be nice to see a glimpse of the planned ratios to know how worthy triple metal mixing would be to get into, especially when those additional ingots are more expensive than the base ingot.

Assuming you mean mixing different ingots to get a specific type of metal (e.g iron, nickel and cobalt for iron), I claim it's very much worthy of doing.

Secondary/tertiary metals are generally not used at anywhere near the ratio of primary metals". Using them to lower the requirements of primary metal ores is a huge bonus.

Similarly with mixing two types of crushed ores for one specific type - you will get more of the primary ore out of it than you would in any other way. For example, if your base requires a couple times more iron than copper, it makes sense to use sitarite + jovilite mixing to get pure iron out of it instead of processing it into iron+copper, let alone going through the full several step processing that leaves you with minimal amount of the primary ores.

[NewSwiss]

In my current playthrough of bobs + angel I've run into the problem of there being not enough demand for lead besides batteries.

Are you using a different recipe for solder? Because I usually go through hundreds of thousands of lead just on solder over the course of a game (it goes into all the electronic boards and modules).

Currently there's no reason to mix metals due to the 1:1 ratio, unless mixing with a cheaper ingot is possible to save some more expensive intermediates. So it would be nice to see a glimpse of the planned ratios to know how worthy triple metal mixing would be to get into, especially when those additional ingots are more expensive than the base ingot.

I make heavy use of the metal mixing recipes, as I am currently trying to beat the game (not just launch a rocket, but research all bob's late-game stuff) using only the ores that RSO gave me in the starting area. I had less than 150k saphirite, so being able to stretch my iron and steel using nickel and cobalt was a life saver. Similarly, manganese and chromium are free from washing seawater, so it made a lot of sense to use them whenever possible.

Even if you aren't trying to be super conservative, it is common to end up with tons of nickel and cobalt as a result of higher-tier refining, so it's nice to be able to use them vs just sticking them in warehouses forever.

[Sperwer]

Trying the new logistics mod release for .15.
Some vanilla behaviors messing up things:
- construction robots from personal roboport will recharge and enter a cargo roboport. There they have no use.
- logistic zone expanders ask for electricity. But they work just as well without. Roboports have same behavior but since they are spread more the lack of recharge is then forcing electricity connection.

[Catfight]

In my current playthrough of bobs + angel I've run into the problem of there being not enough demand for lead besides batteries.

Are you using a different recipe for solder? Because I usually go through hundreds of thousands of lead just on solder over the course of a game (it goes into all the electronic boards and modules).

Currently there's no reason to mix metals due to the 1:1 ratio, unless mixing with a cheaper ingot is possible to save some more expensive intermediates. So it would be nice to see a glimpse of the planned ratios to know how worthy triple metal mixing would be to get into, especially when those additional ingots are more expensive than the base ingot.

I make heavy use of the metal mixing recipes, as I am currently trying to beat the game (not just launch a rocket, but research all bob's late-game stuff) using only the ores that RSO gave me in the starting area. I had less than 150k saphirite, so being able to stretch my iron and steel using nickel and cobalt was a life saver. Similarly, manganese and chromium are free from washing seawater, so it made a lot of sense to use them whenever possible.

Even if you aren't trying to be super conservative, it is common to end up with tons of nickel and cobalt as a result of higher-tier refining, so it's nice to be able to use them vs just sticking them in warehouses forever.

I haven't gotten that far into the game but I'm currently using the bob's reciepe one where it's 7 lead to 4 tin for the plates to reduce tin usage and increase lead usage. should i perhaps use the 50/50 angels Receipt to increase usage of both overall?

PS: I've yet to get the Electronic circuit boards and so this might be why I'm not using that much yet, and with every increase in tier I can only imagine the solder usage will spike like crazy

[Arch666Angel]

Trying the new logistics mod release for .15.
Some vanilla behaviors messing up things:
- construction robots from personal roboport will recharge and enter a cargo roboport. There they have no use.
- logistic zone expanders ask for electricity. But they work just as well without. Roboports have same behavior but since they are spread more the lack of recharge is then forcing electricity connection.

Both are issues that are connected to the vanilla entities. I can neither change the behavior of the bots, nor the behavior of the zone expander calling for electricity even if they dont need any. That's just how the base game logic works.
Changing the roboports to make these things go away would turn them to regular ports and then the question would arise why have them then.

[Sperwer]

Smelting mod science change.

A lot of the smelting research has been moved to a higher tier. While this helps with not endlessly figuring out how to get hydrofluoric acid at game start it makes whatever you can get with red science totally worthless. At that stage you will not get any efficiency, no longer can make coils until blue science and just end up with machines that use loads of power.

If you go from low tech melting setups to adding ore processing and pellets steps its quite easy as you do not get overwhelmed with needing all the acids, coal derivatives and other ingredients for metal cooking at once. I liked that approach as opposed to petrochem where you preferably setup both a oil and gas refinery with every possible output being taken care of, even if you won't need the extra stuff for weeks.

So in my opinion either ditch all the melting research from red science and move everything up a tier or have some use for red science smelting setup.

[Arch666Angel]

Point of the early smelting setups is more of a future proof your factory, because the casting part of all setups stays the same. The other thing is that even if you don't go through processed or pellets, you can get a gain from the alloying step, because the molten metal is the same regardless if it comes from ore, processed or pellets, just the amount varies.

[Sperwer]

Both are issues that are connected to the vanilla entities. I can neither change the behavior of the bots, nor the behavior of the zone expander calling for electricity even if they don't need any. That's just how the base game logic works.

I feared as much. I hope the base game logic gets improved someday then

[NewSwiss]

I also posted to bob's mods about this, but air separation should be buffed by 2-5x. Right now, the best way to get oxygen (in game) is to electrolyze water, and often just vent the hydrogen. IRL, it's far more efficient to do cryogenic air separation, and vent the nitrogen if need be. I would like to see this represented in the recipes for air and air separation from the chemical plants. Especially for your air compressor/cryo buildings given how massive they are.

Actually, I just thought up an alternative: make a separate recipe that just produces liquid oxyegn in the same (or similar) quantity that the other recipe produces liquid nitrogen+oxygen. Because oxygen's boiling point is higher than nitrogen, you can add more air to already cryogenic liquid air to preferentially condense the oxygen while evaporating the nitrogen. Call it cryogenic gas exchange or something. I know how much you like recipes with bi-products, but this would be pretty darn convenient.

[Sperwer]

The other thing is that even if you don't go through processed or pellets, you can get a gain from the alloying step, because the molten metal is the same regardless if it comes from ore, processed or pellets, just the amount varies.

Alloys are locked behind green science in angelssmelting 3.2.

So only future proofing remains for the red science recipes of smelting.

[catpig]

Hi,
I've noticed that the pipe connection spots (see screenshot) seem to have moved with one of the mod updates (or the game update) I've made today. I suspect this might be related to "split gas refinery to small and advanced variants" from petrochem 0.5.9?
I was just wondering if this was intentional or not before I rebuild those crazy pipes

[Catfight]

Are there currently plans to make changes to all the various machines to incorperate clay bricks and concrete bricks into their recepies as was done sneakily in the latest Petrochem release?

[Arch666Angel]

Are there currently plans to make changes to all the various machines to incorperate clay bricks and concrete bricks into their recepies as was done sneakily in the latest Petrochem release?

yes!

[NewSwiss]

I haven't gotten that far into the game but I'm currently using the bob's reciepe one where it's 7 lead to 4 tin for the plates to reduce tin usage and increase lead usage. should i perhaps use the 50/50 angels Receipt to increase usage of both overall?

This depends on how much of each you have. In a previous game, I went through about 200k of each before hitting the "infinite everything" stage of the late-late game (bob's modules).

PS: I've yet to get the Electronic circuit boards and so this might be why I'm not using that much yet, and with every increase in tier I can only imagine the solder usage will spike like crazy

Yea, you're still in the early/mid game. You'll end up needing plenty lead, so don't worry about it building up in chests/warehouses for now. Though I'd advise stockpiling the ore, rather than the plate, as you may want to use a different refining process later on. Particularly for when you need sulfuric acid, since lead gives you free sulfur dioxide with the advanced processing routes.

[CitizenJoe]

Is it even possible to make enough mineralized water for use in crystal slurry filtering? Even using all my crushed stone and recycling all of my waste water, I barely have enough to turn the geodes from hydro refining into sludge.