Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

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pieppiep
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Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by pieppiep »

Overview
First part
Middle part
Last part
Electric network info
Blueprint
The overview is a printscreen from the blueprint view in game.
Not really much to see, the total size is 406x50 tiles. A little more when you connect water.

In first part you see the reactors are supplied by robots.
No intelligent checking or buffering with steam is implemented, so total consumption is always 10 nuclear fuel each 200 seconds.
The used cells are pushed out with active providers.
The heat pipes tranfer heat to the first 8 heat exchangers to make steam for the first 14 turbines.
The medium electric poles aren't needed in normal operations, I placed them and disconnected them from the nuclear to supply the inserters with power from another setup because the black accumulator from the creative mode mod sucks up all the energy when testing and then no new fuel is inserted.

In the middle part you see another 8 heat exchangers to make steam for another 14 turbines.
I see now (didn't notice in-game) that the water supply is connected. When testing in-game it wasn't a problem.

The last part shows how the water supply should be connected.

The electric network shows the setup first supplies 3200MW, that's when it's properly warmed up and has some steam in the pipes between the heat exchangers and steam turbines.
After a while it drops to 3040MW.


Now some numbers.

(With a single row I mean from the middle to the side, so the output from one reactor)
A single reactor gives 40MW.
In a setup like this the corner reactors have 2 bonussus, so they give 3 times 40MW, that's 120MW.
The middle ones have 3 bonusses so they give 4 times 40MW, that's 160MW.
The maximum transfer for a heat pipe is 1GW I've read somewhere on this forum, so 160MW is no problem.
Only problem is you must place the heat pipes by hand moving from reactor away to the water source. If you don't, the heat pipes give problems with these length.
A row must be able to handle 160MW so we need 16 heat exchangers.
A turbine can handle 5.8MW so we need 160/5.8 = 27.59 turbines each row, so rounded up it's 28 a row.
28 turbines need a total of 28*60 = 1680 water/second. A single offshore pump supplies 1200 so we need 2.
The length of the pipes doesn't seem to be a problem for 840 water/second.

When you need more than 3040MW power, you can just connect the next one to it. Remember to remove the heat pipes from the blueprint and place them by hand.
Each you place after the first one should give 3200MW.
So with 2 times this setup you have 6400MW peak and then it drops a little to 6240MW.
If even that is not enough drop another one, and one more. :)

The hardest part is probably finding a correct place where you have enough water, though I've read (not yet tested) the new pumps support 1200 water/sec just like the offshore pumps.
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by MeduSalem »

Ha... awesome.

Also thought about doing it this way with some minor differences in the arrangement order. Seems like you beat me to it.

I wanted to place the Steam Turbines close to the Reactors and the Heat Exchangers closer to the Offshore pumps since it doesn't matter how long the heat pipes are anyways as long as placed in the right direction).

Just couldn't find a suitible coastline to make it work... and I don't feel like filling up an entire lake with a million landfills just to have a suitible coast line on both sides. Maybe it might work if placed between 2 lakes and edit only the shorelines as necessary... but it would still require them lakes to be almost perfectly parallel so not to have to underground pipe through the middle of nowhere. xD

It's a pity one can't place water to create artificial ponds... even if one would have to connect them to existing lakes (and even if it would make the existing lakes shrink in size to make up for it). Would make it easier to build such large scale powerplants.
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by pieppiep »

For this test I've just created water with creative mode.
Another option would be to use waterwell, I think those can create 1000 water/second.
The last option I've been thinking about but haven't tried yet is to bring water with trains.
Each wagon is 6 + 1 in between and can be connected to 3 pumps. So each 7 tiles 3 pumps gives 3/7*5 = 2.14 pumps = 2571 water/second where I need 1680 water/second so with tanks for buffering there is enough time for trains to enter and leave.
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by OBAMA MCLAMA »

1700 water a sec? For one blueprint?
I don't believe it... but you can use robots and water barrels.
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by pieppiep »

OBAMA MCLAMA wrote:1700 water a sec? For one blueprint?
I don't believe it... but you can use robots and water barrels.
1680 water/second for each reactor.
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by quinor »

Anybody tried it on new version (after heatpipe update)? I did and got a decent stackable setup as long as you can water it...
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by pieppiep »

quinor wrote:Anybody tried it on new version (after heatpipe update)? I did and got a decent stackable setup as long as you can water it...
I tried, but haven't succeed yet.
Can you show yours? Water shouldn't be a problem I think.
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by quinor »

Below there are pictures of unit stacked from _two_ 2x4 setup tiles. To pipe water to more than 2 units you need some fiddling with underground pipes and moving turbines further away, but it's entirely doable. Blueprint book below.
center
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blueprint book
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by pieppiep »

It looks so clean and nice, I really like it!
Can't try it out atm, but I can do some math.

Each reactor will give 160MW (ignore the end of the line because we want to infinite grow this)
Each 8 reactors have 10 rows, so 160*8/10 = 128MW for each row.
Each row is thus 13 heat exchanges long, thats 13*3 = 39 tiles with 2 or 3 extra at the beginning and 1 less at the end, total 40 or 41 long.
Here somebody says temperature drops 1C per tile and 6.5C extra per tile per 100MW transferred. 130MW should thus drop 9.45C per tile, or 387.45C total giving max 612C at the end.
130MW / 5.8MW = 22.4 turbines each row.
22.4 * 60 = 1344 water each second. An offshore pump gives 1200 water each second, but that number drops quick with just a few pipes.

I can see the problem with the water. I have a theory to maybe solve that.
When you place a single reactor and put a full cell in it, you will see the temperature rise 800C.
If you place a reactor with 3 bonusses it will try to rise with 4*800 = 3200C.
When the reactor is 500C and you can get 2700C rise out of it in the 200 seconds the full is burning you won't loose energy.
The remaining 500C can be done in 500/3200*200 = 31.25 seconds.
Now we only need 2700/3200*1344 = 1134 water per second.
If I understand this post correctly, we need a flow of 1134/60 = 18.9 water per tick. For 19 water each tick the pipe length can be 23.
Since after the first heat exchange the amount of needed water after that drops with 1/13 of the total water each second, it becomes 12/13*1134 = 1047 per second, 17.5 per tick, 41 pipes.
So with inserting a full cell each 232 seconds we don't burn to much fuel under full load.

When this all works it would be nice if the water is buffered in storage tanks and read out so that no fuel is inserted when the tanks are full enough.
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by Aeternus »

The heatpipes in the OPs design are way too long to work with the current (0.15.11) heatpipe changes sadly. I've run into the same problem.
As for the water flow/consumption rates to heat exchangers... Water to steam takes 0.2KJ per degree raised.
500-15 = 485 dgr temperature delta. = 97 KJ/unit of water to raise base water to 500dgr steam
Heat exchanger runs at 10MW = 10MJ/s = 10000KJ/s
Heat exchanger water consumption therefor is 10000/97 = 103.09 units of water per second. I typically just round that to 100/s. If your heat exchangers aren't getting this amount per exchanger (assuming the output gets dumped into a buffer which means they are running at max capacity during burst production) then you'll run into a water shortage.
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by quinor »

Well, I have tested that setup with creative mode and it gives just shy of 2.5gw of power which is the expected number. I use two pumps per each water pipe to provide that 1300 water per second and that's why I've said that the water is challenging. The post pieppiep linked is outdated (you'd have to redo the math for .15) and I wouldn't rely on it.
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by pieppiep »

The post about the fluids?
It's updated to 0.15
He talks about a 15000 storage tank for example.

To keep 1344 water per second you need 1344 / 60 = 22.4 water per tick, so 8 pipes before next pump (2 pumps parallel?)
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by quinor »

Oh, sorry, I did not notice that it's updated :) It works somehow, now I need somebody to explain why.
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by Distelzombie »

The thing is HOW LONG does it give maximum output if you dont pause in between and let the pipes heat up.
Complete 2-Lane system as a Blueprint-Book!
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The perfect OCD reactor?
https://goo.gl/TZ8kPA
Testing chained science lab efficiency
https://goo.gl/yv6ubq
Please use real prefixes and proper rounding!
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by quinor »

Mine? Tested about an hour.
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by Distelzombie »

quinor wrote:Mine? Tested about an hour.
I cannot imagine it working. I spend hours making a setup that does not suffer from the new heatpipe mechanic. In every of my 9 attempts I had to arrange the heatexchangers around the reactor.
Complete 2-Lane system as a Blueprint-Book!
https://goo.gl/PF20QP
The perfect OCD reactor?
https://goo.gl/TZ8kPA
Testing chained science lab efficiency
https://goo.gl/yv6ubq
Please use real prefixes and proper rounding!
https://goo.gl/sr88qp
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by quinor »

Try checking for yourself, I have posted the blueprints:)
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Re: Tileable nuclear design 3040MW+n*3200MW

Post by pieppiep »

I've checked your design, it seems to work pretty well.
Some pipe are a little over their max theoretical length, but probably others compensate for that.
The temperature for the reactors seems to get stable at 700C what means no energy gets lost.

For the water I've made this,
Water.png
Water.png (322.85 KiB) Viewed 22701 times
One pump can pump 12000 water/sec, but because the pipes are only 100 units bit, it can be filled max 10 units/tick = 600 water/sec.
Because we need a little over 1300 we need 3 pumps.
And to keep enough pressure we need the pumps again after only 4 boilers.

I've tested it with 2 pumps before I realised the pump aren't 1200/sec but 12000/sec and the pipes are 10 units/tick filled.
The 2 pumps was not enough, the temperature for the reactors kept rising.
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