[0.15] Storage chests still a no-go; workarounds?

[Camalie]

I recently tried switching away from the "production -> passive -> requester" design I usually do to using the more flexible/intuitive "production -> active [->storage] -> requester" set-up, but was disappointed to find that the latter still does not work on a large scale.

Logistic bots still grossly "over-deliver" to storage chests, even beyond the static storage capacity of chests. You regularly see them trying to deliver 8+k plates to a chest that already had 4k plates in it (capacity of 800), only to bounce over and try to deliver to a chest that seemed as far away as possible, to over-fill that one as well and bounce a second time, and it makes my heart ache for the poor little guys.

Like this:

s2.PNG (106.85 KiB) Viewed 4030 times

(This is a regular storage chest so only has a capacity of 48 x 100 of this item.)

(The lesser problems, of there being zero load-balancing and target chest being picked on a network-random basis without taking proximity into account are also still in effect.)

A) Will this ever be fixed in the main game? I know there have been various old threads on this, and found Rseding talked about wanting to fix this long-standing issue already for 0.13: https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... t/cxlgvoh/

B) What are the work-arounds?
B.1) Can mods adjust fundamental bot behavior, i.e. influence how they pick chests?
B.2) Does there exist any mods that adds a combined requester+passive kind of storage chest: i.e. a storage chests where you can specify its intended contents so it acts as a low-priority requester when storing? Is possible to make such a thing?
B.3) Or should I switch back all my designs to using passive-only storage at production sites?

[saturn7]

Keep all storage chests in a square, and research as much bot speed as possible, is the only solution I found. Otherwise your bots will mess it up.

[iceman_1212]

The problem when logistic networks get too big is that there ends up being longer and longer delays (due to longer and longer distances traveled) between when a bot gets an order to pick up from an active provider and when it deposits those contents into a storage chest. I think what's happening in your base is that the bots are picking up from active providers because the logistic system is telling them that there is indeed space available in storage chests. But by the time they get to those storage chests, they've filled up because of bots that were already enroute and which I don't think are accounted for when the logistic system reports free storage space.

What's the problem that you're seeking to solve by moving to production --> active --> storage --> requester from production --> passive --> requester?

[Aeternus]

A) Will this ever be fixed in the main game? I know there have been various old threads on this, and found Rseding talked about wanting to fix this long-standing issue already for 0.13: https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... t/cxlgvoh/
System is working as designed. Bots will try to clear out active provider chests and move what's in them first to requester chests, but if no requester chest is demanding the resource, it goes to storage. Chests that already have a (partial) stack of the item type in it are preferred, even if they are far away. Basically bots prioritize like this:
Take item from Active Provider chest:
-> Requester chest needs it? Take it there
-> No requester chest? Check all storage chests, are there any that already have this item type? If yes, take to the closest one that has room.
-> No storage chests with this item type? Take it to the closest that has some room.
-> No space in storage chests at all? Hover around until space frees up and warn the player about "insufficient logistics storage space."

B) What are the work-arounds?
My own is to not use active provider chests for general cargo movement. Only for infrequently used stuff that won't accumulate. I also concentrate all my storage chests in a single location, usually near a structure production complex.

B.1) Can mods adjust fundamental bot behavior, i.e. influence how they pick chests?
Dunno. Doubt it.

B.2) Does there exist any mods that adds a combined requester+passive kind of storage chest: i.e. a storage chests where you can specify its intended contents so it acts as a low-priority requester when storing? Is possible to make such a thing?
No, but this can be simulated by keeping an item of the kind you want to store in the storage chest. That'll make it a "priority" storage chest for that particular item.

B.3) Or should I switch back all my designs to using passive-only storage at production sites?
That's what I'd do. If you need to store more then a chestfull of any item, you can use multiple passive provider chests, or use a storage mod like warehousing.

[SpeedDaemon]

I've taken to simply never building huge one-logistics-network-to-rule-them-all systems, because it's hugely inefficient to have the bots constantly wandering across the entire map.

I break up the network around certain areas or functions, and use other, more intelligent means to move stuff between them. This both reduces the distances the bots travel, and also keeps the required #s of bots in their own area doing their own thing, rather than being halfway across the map when something needs to be done.