[0.15.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[Muki]

there is a whole balance problem I think with the robots.
If you change the cost of logistic system this means you can get robots with only blue science but with blue science actually you get
cargo size 1
worker speed 2
AND robot mk2 (let be honest, having some aluminium at this point is not a big task)

So you can have a fully and fast robot logistic with mk2 robots already boosted (I was doing this during 0.14, directly skipping the MK1 robots) and this is before what we can call mid game in Bob's and your map is nearly done.
No more logistic problems, mass robot and they will fairly do the job as MK2 robots. There is still a big gap between MK1 and MK2 robots in my opinion, mk1 are so slow compared to mk2 (or mk2 so fast )

so in my opinion the logistic system maybe need a change but everything else need a change too. You want early / mid game robots, fair enough but they need to be slow as MK1 robots are and not directly MK2 stuff at this point because the tech allows you to get them.
I think the recipe of the robots are good and match nicely the factory progression maybe the change are just when you unlock the tech.

[bobingabout]

If I reduced the science cost of something, it would likely be a permanent feature of my mods.
Although I do like to try and appease the requests of as many people as possible, I also don't want to flood the game with option after option to the point where the options screen has a large array of buttons that do a very small thing. I want to allow my mod to be as customisable as possible with as few options as is sensible, so small changes like this likely wouldn't have an option at all.
Keeping that in mind, if I keep the cost high, people who want the low cost option are stuck waiting, where as if I reduce the cost, those who don't want to research it until they have high tech science, don't have to.

Another reason why I am inclined to reduce the cost of this is... I expand on things after this point. There is no reason to gate this behind such high end research other than to prevent people researching it early on, and I like to slowly make things more expensive as things go on. if I don't reduce the cost, then you have a lot of low research cost higher tech items gated behind a high cost lower tech item, which doesn't fit well with the rest of my mod.

I hope this makes sense, and that you don't judge me too hard for my decisions.

[T2k3]

I use hydrazine, dymethyl hydrazine and nitric acid in the petrochems mod for rocket fuel. If you look into the old N-Tech chemistry mod, it had a chain for hydrazine for rocket fuel.

So do you think this is a move in the right direction?

Yeah, depends on how much "complexity" you want e.g. how deep the recipe tree should be, but this is at least more challenging and interesting that putting some fuel blocks together, which you can produce on mass starting from mid game, specially with the new vanilla coal liquification.

The Part with rocket fuel is there are tons of em.

Maybe you could implement the reactions as more or less effective alternatives. So the more brain you put into the production of it the more rocket fuel/satellites ect. you get out of it.

as Example:

Start of with liquid oxygen and hydrogen as small yield rocket fuel going up to liquid methan and/or RP1(Kersone see spoiler for more).
Then maybe giving hydrazine into the satellites or rocketparts process to increase yield.

a somewhat detailed excursion on rocket fuels

Monopropellants

So called monopropellants being mainly used for reaction control(RCS) in Space, so they are not really a fuel used in a rocket and more part of satellites and spaceships(shuttle capsule whatever).
- Hydrazine aka N2H4 is one of this category.
- Then there is "high-test peroxide"(HTP) aka H202.
(Sometimes only a singular gas as nitrogen is used as RCS as well)

Hypergolic fuels

There is a category of so called hypergolic fuels meaning they ignite as soon they touch each other. They are used for RCS system and upper stages of a rocket. Since they don't fall apart while being stored they are widely used in military rockets.
- There would be Aerozine 50 + N2O4 while Aerozine is a mixture of Hydrozine and Unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine(UDMH) aka H2NN(CH3)2 ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsymmetr ... lhydrazine )
- Then there is UDMH + N2O4
- And Monomethylhydrazine (MMH) + nitrogen tetroxide (NTO)

Solid Fuels

Solid fuels are mostly used for rocket boosters, with deliver the extra umpf to get the Rocket to speed bevor the main engines deliver enough thrust. There is a wide variety of them one being black poweder aka gunpoweder. Sticking to them used for rockets there are:
- Hydroxyl-terminated polybutadiene (HTPB) ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyl- ... ybutadiene )
- ANCP with is based on Ammonium nitrate aka N2H4O3
- APCP with is based on Ammonium perchlorate aka NH4ClO4
- both ANCP and APCP can use aluminum and ANCP magnesium

Liquid Fuels

Last but not least there are liquid fuels, the main fuel used in first stages of rockets. They often use liquid oxygen aka LOX as oxidizer and i wouldn't search them with a candle.
- the first and mostly used liquid rocket fuel would be RP1 a somewhat refined Kerosene + LOX
- liquid Hydrogen(LH2) + LOX
- liquid methane + LOX with is the stuff SpaceX wants to use in the future

There are surely many more, but as a overview that should be enough.

[nagapito]

or we have some rocket scientist here or we have someone that has a very special interest of fuel and things that combust

[Recon777]

Having it be an option in the settings (set to sooner tech by default) would be fine if people want it that way. But honestly, the logistics system is a BIG part of the game. And waiting for 50-70 hours into the game JUST to get it unlocked is more than a little ridiculous. It doesn't "skip" any complexity to enable logi system at about the same number of hours as you'd have in Vanilla... Look at it from the perspective of playtime progress rather than specific techs. Also, just because someone unlocks logi chests does not necessarily mean the game becomes less complex. It simply allows you to create MORE complex systems in a smaller space. Also, some of the stuff in Bob's mods is downright tedious w/o logistics bots. Modules, for example. But fine, if it's something people want as an option in the settings, then sure, why not?

[bobingabout]

Also, I'm fairly sure (Without checking) that both the logistics and construction robots are unlocked much earlier, it seems a little silly, at least to me, that you don't unlock the full range of chests at the same time.

[T2k3]

or we have some rocket scientist here or we have someone that has a very special interest of fuel and things that combust

lets say i'm somewhat enthusiastic when it comes to rockets ( and a big fan of kerbal spaceprogam )

That being said, i understand that you can't complicate the game till the players brain explodes. So i think the idea of more complicated stuff increasing the overall yield of your factory instead of being mandatory is a good balance point.

[slurr]

Hello,

I noticed an inconsistency with Power Armor Mk.4. The level 4 power armor gives a 16x16 inventory grid, while the level 3 gives 12x12 and the level 5 gives 16x16. I believe the level 4 armor should be changed to 14x14.

[nagapito]

Factorio 0.15.10 crashes loading....

Code: Select all

49.322 Mods to disable:Failed to load mods: Error while loading entity prototype "boiler-2" (boiler): Key "fluid_input" not found in property tree at ROOT.boiler.boiler-2

Creative mode had a similar error, I tried to hack the mod and add the property, which didnt made a lot of sense since vanilla boilers dont have this property and there is nothing on the change log.
After I added it, then it gave error with a fluid_output, which is even more strange since no vanilla entity has this property!!!

So... I might be missing something or 15.10 might be requiring something that its not supposed to exist!

[Irwon]

Factorio 0.15.10 crashes loading....

Code: Select all

49.322 Mods to disable:Failed to load mods: Error while loading entity prototype "boiler-2" (boiler): Key "fluid_input" not found in property tree at ROOT.boiler.boiler-2

Creative mode had a similar error, I tried to hack the mod and add the property, which didnt made a lot of sense since vanilla boilers dont have this property and there is nothing on the change log.
After I added it, then it gave error with a fluid_output, which is even more strange since no vanilla entity has this property!!!

So... I might be missing something or 15.10 might be requiring something that its not supposed to exist!

You have to add this after output_fluid_box of each boiler and heat exchanger from bobspower

Code: Select all

fluid_input =
    {
      name = "water",
      amount = 0.0
    },
    fluid_output =
    {
      name = "steam",
      amount = 0.0
    },

And change the fluid_input from steam engines and steam turbines to steam like this

Code: Select all

fluid_input =
    {
      name = "water",
      amount = 0.0,
      minimum_temperature = 100.0
    },

becomes

Code: Select all

fluid_input =
    {
      name = "steam",
      amount = 0.0,
      minimum_temperature = 100.0
    },

[ScaryBuh]

Logistic 3 requires production science pack which I find completely absurd, or a mistake. It's too ahead in tech to get those science packs without option to research express belts before.
Logistic 4 doesn't require production science pack.

Now if the logic is to produce "logistic science pack" to research the next logistics I think it's still unbalanced in the amount of iron it requires to do that in "complex recipes", even after removing the production science pack from logistic 3.

[bobingabout]

Hello,

I noticed an inconsistency with Power Armor Mk.4. The level 4 power armor gives a 16x16 inventory grid, while the level 3 gives 12x12 and the level 5 gives 16x16. I believe the level 4 armor should be changed to 14x14.

Good find! That error has likely been in the mod for months!

Logistic 3 requires production science pack which I find completely absurd, or a mistake. It's too ahead in tech to get those science packs without option to research express belts before.
Logistic 4 doesn't require production science pack.

Now if the logic is to produce "logistic science pack" to research the next logistics I think it's still unbalanced in the amount of iron it requires to do that in "complex recipes", even after removing the production science pack from logistic 3.

This was an error, Logistics 3 will no longer require production science pack in the next update. (I'm working on about 5 mods side by side here, the goal being to strighten out the logistics pack)
Also, logistics pack requiring an express belt was requested by people, the original recipe called for fast belt. The change makes sense if you consider it on par with the production science pack.

Factorio 0.15.10 crashes loading....

Code: Select all

49.322 Mods to disable:Failed to load mods: Error while loading entity prototype "boiler-2" (boiler): Key "fluid_input" not found in property tree at ROOT.boiler.boiler-2

Creative mode had a similar error, I tried to hack the mod and add the property, which didnt made a lot of sense since vanilla boilers dont have this property and there is nothing on the change log.
After I added it, then it gave error with a fluid_output, which is even more strange since no vanilla entity has this property!!!

So... I might be missing something or 15.10 might be requiring something that its not supposed to exist!

0.15.10 added this as a requirement. the changelog basically just lists this as: "Steam is now internally a separate fluid from hot water.", doesn't say it's going to cause an error.

[nagapito]

Factorio 0.15.10 crashes loading....

Code: Select all

49.322 Mods to disable:Failed to load mods: Error while loading entity prototype "boiler-2" (boiler): Key "fluid_input" not found in property tree at ROOT.boiler.boiler-2

Creative mode had a similar error, I tried to hack the mod and add the property, which didnt made a lot of sense since vanilla boilers dont have this property and there is nothing on the change log.
After I added it, then it gave error with a fluid_output, which is even more strange since no vanilla entity has this property!!!

So... I might be missing something or 15.10 might be requiring something that its not supposed to exist!

0.15.10 added this as a requirement. the changelog basically just lists this as: "Steam is now internally a separate fluid from hot water.", doesn't say it's going to cause an error.

Doesnt say its going to cause an error, doest say anything in the modding section and vanilla boilers are magic and dont require it. (Pretty sure I checked the lua files from 0.15.10... but with 3 factorio installations, now I am only 98% sure and already downgraded so I could play )

[bobingabout]

Factorio 0.15.10 crashes loading....

Code: Select all

49.322 Mods to disable:Failed to load mods: Error while loading entity prototype "boiler-2" (boiler): Key "fluid_input" not found in property tree at ROOT.boiler.boiler-2

Creative mode had a similar error, I tried to hack the mod and add the property, which didnt made a lot of sense since vanilla boilers dont have this property and there is nothing on the change log.
After I added it, then it gave error with a fluid_output, which is even more strange since no vanilla entity has this property!!!

So... I might be missing something or 15.10 might be requiring something that its not supposed to exist!

0.15.10 added this as a requirement. the changelog basically just lists this as: "Steam is now internally a separate fluid from hot water.", doesn't say it's going to cause an error.

Doesnt say its going to cause an error, doest say anything in the modding section and vanilla boilers are magic and dont require it. (Pretty sure I checked the lua files from 0.15.10... but with 3 factorio installations, now I am only 98% sure and already downgraded so I could play )

No, they added it, it's definitely in there, I found it by doing a diffcompare, then copy-paste the new lines in.

[ScaryBuh]

About the logistic 3 and 4 again... if the logistic 3 needs blue science pack, shouldn't the logistic 4 also require it?

My suggestion would be:
leave as it is logistic 1-3.
Then make logistic 4 cost red, green, blue, and your new logistic science pack (crafted from logistic 3 tech).
The logistic 5 should also require a high tech science pack (or players would just skip logistic 4 straight to 5)

[bobingabout]

About the logistic 3 and 4 again... if the logistic 3 needs blue science pack, shouldn't the logistic 4 also require it?

My suggestion would be:
leave as it is logistic 1-3.
Then make logistic 4 cost red, green, blue, and your new logistic science pack (crafted from logistic 3 tech).
The logistic 5 should also require a high tech science pack (or players would just skip logistic 4 straight to 5)

it goes 1+2+L then 1+2+3+L for 4 and 5 doesn't it?
You're right, there's no real reason why it shouldn't be 123L then 123LH

[Recon777]

RSO just got updated to support Bob's Mods Thorium.
I wasn't aware this ore existed. What's it for? Is it currently used or is this future planning?

[bobingabout]

RSO just got updated to support Bob's Mods Thorium.
I wasn't aware this ore existed. What's it for? Is it currently used or is this future planning?

I mostly made it to test the new features of my library to support the new types of ore, so currently it does nothing.

I will though, at some point, basically make a new recipe tree for it as a nuclear fuel.

[CitizenJoe]

The category icons for chemicals and intermediate stuff are both still only displaying one quarter of the icon despite the tags.

[Airat9000]

Bug

15.10

2017-05-11_21-06-07.jpg (66.42 KiB) Viewed 7100 times