Shipping Methods & Assembly (inclusion of size/weight)

[AndaleTheGreat]

This comes as a single post as all these methods would best be utilized together.
(I am making an assumption about size. Assume a vanilla Transport Belt is 2x2 in size for all my references.)

Players should not be able to carry large or heavy ingredients, only place-able items. I also think large items should be larger and require a bigger transport method.


New or Changed Machines & Buildings:

(Un)Packing Station: This is a 2x2 station for putting items into for sorting and packing. Placed touching another they become a single unit. Used to put items into storage containers. The larger the (Un)Packing Station the larger the container you can pack (1 for Box, 2 for Crate, 4 for Container), but adding more stations is still possible as this will add insertion points. Stations can be fed via Roller/Belt directly or with Robotic Arms or the Loading Dock when using Containers. The Station has the option to send out containers with different inventories depending on the container. Described below.

Transport Roller: A simple 2x1 roller rack that can transport small items and cardboard boxes. Moves slowly. Does not move without Motorized Transport Roller. (2x1 means 1 item wide, same length as Belt still)
Motorized Transport Roller: Powers up 16 attached Transport Rollers when placed beside one.
Transport Belt: A 2x2 (vanilla size) belt fed line that can transport items, Boxes and Crates. Does not function without a Transport Belt Drive.
Transport Belt Drive: Powers up to 16 Transport Belts.
Transport Belt Drive Booster: Attached to a Transport Belt Drive gives it a speed boost. Does not stack, just use one.
Heavy Duty Conveyer: A 4x4 heavy duty conveyer with metal tracks rather than a belt. Can support heavy/large items.
Heavy Duty Conveyer Drive: When attached this will drive up to 16 Heavy Duty Conveyers. Same speed as Belt Drive, no booster.
Overhead Crane: A 12x5 steel frame. Can be placed over other objects provided the feet can be placed at positions 1, 5, 9 and 12. Used for moving Containers & large/heavy items only. Useful for moving large numbers of items over the top of already set paths. Requires a Loading Dock at one end before placing, then another at other end before using. Can be made longer by adding Overhead Frames.
Example http://imgur.com/DYNpivl
OverHead Frame: An extension of the Crane's framework. Allows the Crane to travel larger distances. 6x5 extensions, feet place at 3 and 6. Must be placed next to a Crane.
Loading Dock: This is the only method for interfacing Containers. They are the intermediate point between (Un)Packing Stations, Assemblers and Cranes.
Robotic Arm: Used for moving light-weight individual items.
Long Robotic Arm: Used for moving light-weight individual items from farther away.
Heavy Robotic Arm: Must be used for moving the heaviest items (the same ones that must be packed into the Containers) and have a short reach.
Half-Splitter: Can be used on Rollers & Belts (will only take from one side tho), works as a Motorized/Drive.
Splitter: Can only be used on Rollers & Belts, otherwise same.
Switcher or Crossover: Two inputs, two outputs, 4x4 (if Splitter is 4x2), but this just swaps items' sides, allowing paths to cross without Underground Belt.
Swapper: Also 4x4. Waits for two items to enter either input before outputting. Also works as a crossover but bars item travel unless it receives both inputs.

Sawmill: Turns logs into usable wood. No longer available for player to do.
(That's all I got on that one, no idea how to implement.)

Light Assembler: Replaces tier 1 Assembly Machine. Crafting is essentially the same. Add in recipes for Roller/Belt and their Drives as well as Cardboard Boxes and Packing Crates, Loading Docks and the first 2 Robotic Arms (not the Heavy). Same 4x4 but can be fed directly by Roller/Belt Transports. Has an output but can still be emptied via Robotic Arm.

Factory: Replaces tier 2 Assembly Machine. Crafting is essentially the same. Add in Heavy Robotic Arm, Heavy Duty Conveyer and Drive. Now an 6x4, requires a Loading dock or Robotic Arm. Placing a second Factory to create a 12x4 structure will create a single building that runs at higher speeds and increases electrical efficiency.

Tier 3 Assembly Machine removed.

New Items:

Cardboard Box: Can hold 32 of a single item. (A single slot, max 32) Non-reusable, gives no recyclables. 1x1, transport on anything. Can be placed and opened, cannot be picked back up/refilled once placed.
Packing Crate: Can hold 128 of a single item or have an up to 2 assigned items. (Four slots, max 32 each) Can hold 4 Cardboard Boxes, allowing 4 items at once. Non-reusable but (Un)Packing Station will create some wood when breaking down. 2x2, requires Belt or Conveyer.
Shipping Container: Can hold 512 of a single item or have an up to 4 assigned items. (Sixteen slots, max 32 each) Can hold 4 Packing Crates, allowing 8 different items, and if these all have cardboard boxes it would be sixteen items. Cannot be packed with Cardboard Boxes directly. Reusable. Never breaks down. 4x4, requires Crane or Heavy Duty Conveyer.


Inserters become robotic arms and are replaced by (Un)Packing Stations rather than the Insterter to Chest method.

Some issues I'm gonna address. No, I didn't state coal vs electric and that is because I am going for method. I think that would be more the balance and that is also why I have included no recipes. You wouldn't like mine anyway, cuz I'd start adding more components ( a lot of them ).
This is the second time I typed this since the site timed out my login while doing so. I hope I remembered everything.
This is obviously me coming from minecraft and having the same annoyance, which is that I can carry 64 pieces of paper or iron in the same space. To me these items need to be treated separately by size and weight.
If examples are requested I'll provide, but they won't be pretty.
!! RED FLAG !!
I also have to admit one MAJOR flaw. I don't know if this engine allows for picking up a box full items and having it know what is inside.

[ssilk]

Sorry to say that, but this is more a mod request than anything else and I move that now to that board.

I suggest, that you make a new request about the inclusion of size/weight only.

[Sedado77]

EDIT: ssilk, are you 24/7 in this forum??? Can't comment without a post from you appearing before mine!!!

WOW, just WOW.
Not bad ideas... but IDK why as I was reading this, I saw something like "Port Simulator". This ideas are good, but (IMO) not for factorio, because you're just trying to turn it into a compleatly different game!!!!!
:S

And there is still a little problem... How would you "carry" the mining drill for placing it over resources? how would you carry Assembly Machines? How would you carry ANYTHING for that matter?

I like the
Switcher or Crossover: Two inputs, two outputs, 4x4 (if Splitter is 4x2), but this just swaps items' sides, allowing paths to cross without Underground Belt.
Swapper: Also 4x4. Waits for two items to enter either input before outputting. Also works as a crossover but bars item travel unless it receives both inputs.

And also the Containers, but I think they'll makethe game a little bit too complex, and not add to the deph.

[BurnHard]

In my opinion the perfect splitter would be just 1x1, but you can connect it with itself side-by-side repeatingly. So you have just ONE element for creating 1x1, 1x2, 1x3, 1x4 - lane- splitters, and so on.

[AndaleTheGreat]

Ok, couple notes:
I did rewrite this and forgot some stuff.

The large/heavy items no carry-able by player idea, this does not include place-able items. As that obviously wouldn't work. I like to think that you are choosing a position and the item is more being constructed there rather than a factory in your pocket.

I disagree with the opinion of this as a mod. I placed this in Suggestions for a reason. I don't appreciate it being moved to be honest. I think the game needs a lot more flushing out and I came up with these ideas based on what was already in game. It doesn't add much, but changes the way it works to give it more customization in each build as well as adding some extra features. The dependence on mods these days seems a bit heavy to me. I also think that games in the 'building/crafting' genre are far too simple myself.
I'm very happy to sit and discuss all day how to change a game at its core, but a mod is different. If I were describing a mod there would be a lot more detail, including a discussion on balance with the vanilla game and recipes. I also wouldn't request a mod until I had some idea what is capable of the game engine. I've yet to look into modding it myself as I just want to play for now. That does not stop me having ideas tho.

I did write in my original that "I'm not trying to make a Factory Simulator" but that is essentially what this game is, the same way Minecraft is a "Legos simulator" (except your sister won't know over your castle, probably). At its base it is a simulator, so I'd like to see more reality.

[AndaleTheGreat]

In my opinion the perfect splitter would be just 1x1, but you can connect it with itself side-by-side repeatingly. So you have just ONE element for creating 1x1, 1x2, 1x3, 1x4 - lane- splitters, and so on.

Sorry to bump my thread, but this I really like.

I assume you mean it would be 1 input then all the outputs would round-robin?

[ssilk]

EDIT: ssilk, are you 24/7 in this forum??? Can't comment without a post from you appearing before mine!!!

No, I just have an iPad and use it every free time. And I tend to be sleepless.

@AndaleTheGreat: with this thread I was really sorry to move it, but it is just too diverse. I really would like to see some of the single ideas to discuss a bit more.

[AndaleTheGreat]

@AndaleTheGreat: with this thread I was really sorry to move it, but it is just too diverse. I really would like to see some of the single ideas to discuss a bit more.

Thing is I don't see how most of the work without all of them.

The packaging is, I think, the most interesting and depending on how the game is coded could help it run better (this is of course based on my knowledge of minecraft and knowing 2 stacks is less intensive than 128 single items being rendered and directed), but very likely the most useless part.

The overhead crane would be a boon due to the ability to move large amounts over the top your build for a longer distance than the underground pipes allow. I think it could easily be left out or made a mod on its own.

The Rollers/Transports/Conveyers would be kinda pointless unless they implement sizes for each item. I think weight isn't really as important as a size restriction when it comes down to it. You could just say that players can only carry items the Rollers could move. I'm certainly not trying to imply you can only carry what you could in a Cardboard Box, but I realized last night that I was carrying an entire inventory worth of iron plates and thought how ridiculous that was.

My suspension of disbelief only goes so far and while I'm not bothered by my magic power to summon machines or how awesome I am to go from "Oh crap, I crashed and have a piece of rebar and that's it" to "I need more robots" in only a day. I am a little annoyed that everyone abandoned inventory management a few years ago (seems like to me). I grew up on the NES tho. Playing Zelda and desperately hoping my enemies would drop anything at all other than that one thing which I already had the max of 10.

.....oh, new idea. A pull cart. Since it is third person. Would let you handle medium size/weight items.

Right, I'm gonna make food. Maybe I will actually play this game again today since I spent all day thinking about it while working.



You know what would help me? Tell me this. Is a vanilla Assembler a factory I've constructed or an automatic crafting station the size of a large desk. The sizes are probably the thing that throws me the most. Especially when so many things are the same size but seem like they ought to be larger.

"Prestidigitation is key."

[ssilk]

@AndaleTheGreat: with this thread I was really sorry to move it, but it is just too diverse. I really would like to see some of the single ideas to discuss a bit more.

Thing is I don't see how most of the work without all of them.

Well, I mean, that's the point: You describe a different game. Or a mod. And because most of that doesn't make sense without the other it is not just list of suggestions.

.....oh, new idea. A pull cart. Since it is third person. Would let you handle medium size/weight items.

Remember, this is another board!

You know what would help me? Tell me this. Is a vanilla Assembler a factory I've constructed or an automatic crafting station the size of a large desk. The sizes are probably the thing that throws me the most. Especially when so many things are the same size but seem like they ought to be larger.

Well, we already had discussions about the sizes. For me, the small sizes comes from the very high developed mechanics in this machines. But you could believe me: The sizes become soon more relative, if you built trains.
That needs lots of space. And never forget: It's just a game.