(0.15) Fluid Wagon / Rail Tanker Station

[iceman_1212]

Here is a fluid wagon station that loads/unloads in a matter of seconds (assuming storage tanks are full/empty at time of train arrival). It has only direct connections between storage tanks and pumps (i.e., no pipes in between pumps and tanks) in order to ensure maximum flow rate. It can be easily modified to RORO style station if needed. Pipes between storage tanks in neighboring wagons are simply to equalize volume.

Blueprint String

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[userasd]

Your station needs to be bigger... You are right. Each fluid wagon is worth 30 storage tanks.

fluid wagon = 75.000 fluids or 3x 25.000 fluids (you can put 3 fluids in one wagon);

storage tank = 2.500 25.00 fluids;

EDIT: Thanks! You reminded me that I should also add a pump in the input of the storage tank array.

[steinio]

Your station needs to be bigger... Each fluid wagon is worth 30 storage tanks.

fluid wagon = 75.000 fluids or 3x 25.000 fluids (you can put 3 fluids in one wagon);

storage tank = 2.500 fluids;

EDIT: Thanks! You reminded me that I should also add a pump in the input of the storage tank array.

Storage tank should be 25.000 or your game is bugged.

Greetings, steinio.

[Shokubai]

The consensus also seems to be moving toward needing 1 pump per storage tank(in or out) and that pump needs to be within 15-20 pipe segments (above or underground) of the tank or train to achieve max throughput. You MAY be losing a tad bit of speed with the back to back tanks without a pump in between but I'm not totally sure there.

[iceman_1212]

The consensus also seems to be moving toward needing 1 pump per storage tank(in or out) and that pump needs to be within 15-20 pipe segments (above or underground) of the tank or train to achieve max throughput. You MAY be losing a tad bit of speed with the back to back tanks without a pump in between but I'm not totally sure there.

For MAX load/unload speed you would want 12 pumps feeding from/to 12 separate tanks with pumps in between if the run is more than say 15 pipe segments. This is obviously more capacity than the train has (3 tanks) but without the extra bandwidth you will bottleneck at the pipe capacity. i.e. 12 pumps to 3 tanks is roughly the same as 3 pumps to 3 tanks. That's my theory anyway based on numbers I've seen here.

Based on the results of the testing in this post, adding a pipe segment (of even length 1) between pump and storage tank reduces flow rate: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46030&p=266098&hilit=fluids#p266098

Re: the piece of pipe between adjacent fluid wagons' sets of tanks - it should only slow flow of fluid coming from other wagons' tanks.

[Aeternus]

You do not have 3 pumps each feeding from an independent storage tank feeding your train wagons - you've not hit max performance. A staggered tank row of 3 tanks will work even faster. Unlike inserters however, you can't put a row of pumps on each side of the train - only one pump per tanker section (3 pumps per wagon) will connect.

Here's a quick but wide example of an expandable rapid fluid transfer station:


Each pump feeding the wagon can feed at a top speed of 300/s or so (experimentation suggested that as the flow rate cap of pumps, at least for water). At 900/s a tanker wagon will be full or empty in just over 83 seconds. Still nowhere near as fast as shoving barrels in a standard wagon with stack inserters - heck, a single fast inserter can easily beat a 300/s flow rate given a barrel holds 250 liquid, and a wagon full of barrels holds 100k liquid vs 75k in a tanker - but it's a lot more convenient for low amounts to use tanker wagons I feel.

[Shokubai]

Removed

[orzelek]

Here is how you load tanker in about 4 seconds top (plus pumps animating I think):

TankerLoading.png (219.33 KiB) Viewed 33367 times

Providing enough fluid to refill tanks quickly might need a lot of water pumps if you intend to haul tons of water this way.
Unloading should work identically with same time.

It only works if pump is directly between tank and tanker like this - any pipe in between breaks the flow. That thread with testing has more details

[iceman_1212]

You do not have 3 pumps each feeding from an independent storage tank feeding your train wagons - you've not hit max performance. A staggered tank row of 3 tanks will work even faster. Unlike inserters however, you can't put a row of pumps on each side of the train - only one pump per tanker section (3 pumps per wagon) will connect.

Here's a quick but wide example of an expandable rapid fluid transfer station:


Each pump feeding the wagon can feed at a top speed of 300/s or so (experimentation suggested that as the flow rate cap of pumps, at least for water). At 900/s a tanker wagon will be full or empty in just over 83 seconds. Still nowhere near as fast as shoving barrels in a standard wagon with stack inserters - heck, a single fast inserter can easily beat a 300/s flow rate given a barrel holds 250 liquid, and a wagon full of barrels holds 100k liquid vs 75k in a tanker - but it's a lot more convenient for low amounts to use tanker wagons I feel.

This setup has 1+ pipe segments between pumps and tanks, which slows flow according to the post I linked above. orzelek's method is the efficient way to connect three pumps to a tank.

[Shokubai]

Here is a gif(little big so let it load) that shows the difference between having and not having the output pump on the tanks. Watch the pump animations.

Pumps.gif (43.78 MiB) Viewed 33351 times

File link if it's slow https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxllv ... G1iZVh2YU0

[Aeternus]

Interesting. So putting the pump at the tank is more efficient... that makes sense, when pressure is lower, flow slows. But behind a pump, pressure is always high. So my design would work if I just move the pumps to connect to the tank

[Edit] Just tested it with 2 more pumps per iteration so that all tanks have a pump connected to them. That configuration fills the tanker wagons in under 6 seconds (starting count after the train stops and the pump connection animation starts). This is indeed faster then doing it without those extra pumps.
Ozolek's configuration works too, but requires room on both sides of the tracks.

[userasd]

Your station needs to be bigger... Each fluid wagon is worth 30 storage tanks.

fluid wagon = 75.000 fluids or 3x 25.000 fluids (you can put 3 fluids in one wagon);

storage tank = 2.500 fluids;

EDIT: Thanks! You reminded me that I should also add a pump in the input of the storage tank array.

Storage tank should be 25.000 or your game is bugged.

Greetings, steinio.

You are right... I don't know from where I got that storage tank holds only 2.500 fluid.

[iceman_1212]

Here is an excerpt from the post I'd referenced earlier. It shows that having pumps attached directly to tanks is not a sufficient condition to ensure maximum throughput. Having any pipes anywhere along the chain results in slower flow.

Hi everyone,

If I use one pump connecting both tanks directly, the combinator reads 181 ticks,
so I'd say the pump can theoretically transfer 25k of fluid in ~3 seconds which means 138.12/tick or 8287.29/s (The tooltip says 200 pumping speed, which apparently means per tick, but I guess the in-/outputs can't keep up)


Then I used one pump with a pipe at the input...


...and then 2 pumps:

I tried this with 0, 1, 2 and 4 pipes (pipe-to-ground counts still as 2 normal pipes[tested]) and later with more.

Summary:

[Mehve]

Even a pair of pumps makes for a frankly ridiculously fast load or unload process, and they're dead simple to place on one side of single rail wagon slot. I don't know how we ever survived with the old small pumps

[iceman_1212]

Even a pair of pumps makes for a frankly ridiculously fast load or unload process, and they're dead simple to place on one side of single rail wagon slot.

Exactly. This setup has even higher throughput than the one in my original post - at this point, my preference for compactness comes into play.

I don't know how we ever survived with the old small pumps

In addition to the new small pumps, I am also loving the new water pumps - it's nice not to need 5+ water pumps for a typical beaconed late-game oil setup.

[Distelzombie]

I found that loading is quite uneven when using multiple tank wagons and having only one input. So included a fluid splitter:

blueprint

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[Shokubai]

I found that loading is quite uneven when using multiple tank wagons and having only one input. So included a fluid splitter:

I like the splitter but if you are going to have 3+ tanks there is no reason not to have 3 pumps to each wagon for faster loading. Here you have 8 tanks and 6 possible connections of which you are only using 4.

[orzelek]

I found that loading is quite uneven when using multiple tank wagons and having only one input. So included a fluid splitter:

I like the splitter but if you are going to have 3+ tanks there is no reason not to have 3 pumps to each wagon for faster loading. Here you have 8 tanks and 6 possible connections of which you are only using 4.

The trick is that for loading to be faster there would need to be 3rd tank next to tanker with only pump - that would need to go on other side of tracks. And might lead to even more issues with fluid balance while not making it that much faster.

[Shokubai]

I found that loading is quite uneven when using multiple tank wagons and having only one input. So included a fluid splitter:

I like the splitter but if you are going to have 3+ tanks there is no reason not to have 3 pumps to each wagon for faster loading. Here you have 8 tanks and 6 possible connections of which you are only using 4.

The trick is that for loading to be faster there would need to be 3rd tank next to tanker with only pump - that would need to go on other side of tracks. And might lead to even more issues with fluid balance while not making it that much faster.

[orzelek]

I found that loading is quite uneven when using multiple tank wagons and having only one input. So included a fluid splitter:

I like the splitter but if you are going to have 3+ tanks there is no reason not to have 3 pumps to each wagon for faster loading. Here you have 8 tanks and 6 possible connections of which you are only using 4.

The trick is that for loading to be faster there would need to be 3rd tank next to tanker with only pump - that would need to go on other side of tracks. And might lead to even more issues with fluid balance while not making it that much faster.

Did you try to check how much faster it really gets?
From what I recall it's not that much - might be worth it if you are planning for really big throughput.
(You do realize tahts my picture ?