Development and Discussion

[Arch666Angel]

The plans for now are:
-Wait for bob to update
-Wait for the override functions to be fixed as a whole
-Make mods work and fix changes bob did
-Go over techs and fix them
-Add uranium to the refining tables
-Convert config.lua to mod menu options

Maybes:
-Add fluid requirement to infinite ore mining (only infinites!)

[nagapito]

Now vanilla factorio enabled fluid mining that is often seen on calcitherite mines, bauxite mines and magnetite mines on the real world, they add certain compounds to soften the ore so the drill can penetrate the rock better taking less time to mine the ore (hence improving productivity) than it would take regularly by just trying to pierce through the hard rock.

So.... My idea was not that far from reality...

Well, you will probably have to use sulphur or another acid during the processing of uranium so.....

But I would not be surprised if some funky late game mechanic appeared where using acid during mining would increase output or some ore patches become more mid game requiring some kind of acid.

[pezzawinkle]

some ideas...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_cyanidation -- a real process used in lower socioeconomic countries where strip mining is not frowned upon, nasty environmental effects for this...

amides and sulfur based acids are popular too, nitric acid is sadly rubbish (as all nitrates are soluble), NaOH, NaOCl or HCl would be fun, (im thinking of non-mined components for decent acids)

Since you are already using/generating various acids, those would be an easy step, i was thinking the NaCN option would be fun to build on your sodium system.
Another thing that could be done is an exotic acidic byproduct of your bio-process mod (algae+bacteria+fungus mixtures are being tested for mineral extraction improvements in mine tailings -- slag processing)

oh, and an odd (but fun one) https://espace.library.uq.edu.au/view/UQ:224037
coal flotation using "terps" or mineral oil, this could be fun dumping mineral oil to access more coal. a fun balance could be drawn with the coal-->oil recipe's

[orzelek]

Due to annoying way that fluid mining works right now with instant conversion of miner having fluid requirement only for infinites would make it extremely annoying in case of mixed patches.
Please do take it into consideration

[mexmer]

Due to annoying way that fluid mining works right now with instant conversion of miner having fluid requirement only for infinites would make it extremely annoying in case of mixed patches.
Please do take it into consideration

people with ideas being considerate? what world you living in?

[Gehargen]

I'm not sure whether or not this is a bug or not, but in Factorio 0.14.22, playing with Angel's Infinite Ores, Refining, Petrochem, and Biorefining (Along with other mods), I have a weird recipe.
When I run Purified Saphirite through an Ore sorter, I get Iron Ore, Iron nuggets, Iron pebbles, and IRON SLAG. I've used the standalone program Foreman to look and see, and the only recipe it has is to make Iron Ore out of the Iron (Not regular!) slag, Iron Pebbles, and a Mineral Catalyst. Am I doing something wrong? Did I not install another needed mod?

I'm running Angel's Refining 0.6.13.

[Light]

I'm rather supportive of infinite ores having the chemical requirement given infinite ores have absolutely zero drawbacks as is, nor does it shift the balance of the game.

Due to annoying way that fluid mining works right now with instant conversion of miner having fluid requirement only for infinites would make it extremely annoying in case of mixed patches.
Please do take it into consideration

I did a test to see how this would function by replacing the infinite ore with uranium. Taking your suggestion under consideration just to see how annoying this could truly be.



It did mine normally until it eventually started the uranium ore and then froze up as it awaited the fluid. While the obvious cure is to just mine around it, which was very simple to do, I decided to make the standard mining build we're all used to.

When adding pipes into the mixture, it's a good thing to remember that miners share fluid between each either and a good row between the miners for pipe space pretty much solves any issues if one needs it in a weird spot. (As illustrated on the bottom with a small miner gap)



Unusual? Sure.
Annoying? Not at all.

Miners sharing fluid is what makes this work so smoothly in a compact area. It honestly looks no different than it usually would, so you should find it works just fine.

[Zyrconia]

Annoying? Not at all.

Are you sure it is not annoying?

Infinite patches are small and not very significant until you have a ton of them. Having trickle from 1-2 infinite patches is nothing compared to setting up a new outpost to mine somewhere.

That's why I view infinite ores as a late game small reward, a way to no longer have to bother with some ores you need less off. Once you have 5+ trains bringing in only infinite ore and you gather them in one place, maybe you can fill up a blue line. Probably not. But it still helps.

So it is a small reward in the form of: you don't need to bother setting up so many new mining outposts.

Making that more complicated with having to deliver some acid via train to 5+ remote outposts with RSO is for me the very definition of annoying...

That's just my opinion though. Mining should not be complicated and should not be made "interesting" because it can't be made interesting. What happens with the ore once it is out of the ground is interesting. You simply can't make it too involved because you need a ton of repetitive tasks to set up mining and you can't beacon it to get around it.

[nagapito]

Annoying? Not at all.

Are you sure it is not annoying?

Infinite patches are small and not very significant until you have a ton of them. Having trickle from 1-2 infinite patches is nothing compared to setting up a new outpost to mine somewhere.

That's why I view infinite ores as a late game small reward, a way to no longer have to bother with some ores you need less off. Once you have 5+ trains bringing in only infinite ore and you gather them in one place, maybe you can fill up a blue line. Probably not. But it still helps.

So it is a small reward in the form of: you don't need to bother setting up so many new mining outposts.

Making that more complicated with having to deliver some acid via train to 5+ remote outposts with RSO is for me the very definition of annoying...

That's just my opinion though. Mining should not be complicated and should not be made "interesting" because it can't be made interesting. What happens with the ore once it is out of the ground is interesting. You simply can't make it too involved because you need a ton of repetitive tasks to set up mining and you can't beacon it to get around it.

As you said, if using normal rso configs, infinite patches are very small, so... not only will they not suffer from different ore overlaps(they might, but would be so rare...) as I also dont see how delivering one train of acid every hour might be a real issue. The patch is so small and the mined amount so low, that it uses almost no acid!!!

But, what about if you dont use current RSO settings? What if all my patches are infinite? Or if I have full finite and infinite patches? Shouldn't those infinite patches deserve a little more effort at mining for the reward of setting once the outpost and never having to changing it anymore?

I think you are ignoring the fact that, no matter how little the patch might be, once the outpost is placed, its there forever! Its not like you have extra work to just remove it in a couple of hours. Its a little more work that will pay itself by not being changed ever again. And... once you setup the infrastructure to support one outpost and design your new outpost blueprint, there is no extra effort anymore, since all the work is already done.

So, is it really bad and annoying having to create a little acid support infrastructure and designing a new outpost station blueprint to give you infinite ores forever and that you can reuse in new outposts without any extra effort?

[hoho]

Making that more complicated with having to deliver some acid via train to 5+ remote outposts with RSO is for me the very definition of annoying...

And the rest of Angel's isn't with all the massive fluid processing, loads of different steps of processing, getting half a dozen different products per processing step and so on is not "the very definition of annoying"?

Unless fluid use is HUGE, I don't think requiring it in outposts is THAT annoying. Having just one wagon delivering acid for uranium mine in vanilla was WAY more than enough and adding a tiny station for that next to the ore loading one was trivial. I'd just have that small train run around various stations, stopping for 15s or so in each. That should be more than enough to keep a whole lot of miners running. Personally, I'd absolutely love it if we had to put in extra effort for mining infinite ores.

[Mobius1]

For those complaining about fluids on infinite patches, there's a trigger that you can use to disable the infinite ores, so you don't have to deal with the "annoying" mining.

[pederbonde]

row 410 and 411 in refining-override-bob.lua somehow removes the explosives recipe causing line 283 in override-functions to crash

youst wanted to share if it helps anybody.

[Catfight]

If there's any change I'd like to see, it's a change to how cement is made. Currently it's made using stone, water and iron ore, which means you need to produce iron ore or get it as an end result, and a problem is that iron ore is terrible storage wise. Nuggets are 3 plates per two nuggets and stack up to at least 100 so that's 150 iron plates per stack. Pebbles are 4->2 but stack into 200's and so will contain a full stack of plates. normal ore however is half a stack of plates, and so turning stuff into regular iron ore is a bit tedious. But that said, Cement is usually made from mostly limestone, majority of the rest is Silica, and then very small percentages of iron and magnesium. If we changed the reciepes you get from say, mining Jivoite and crontium to giving crushed limestone instead, or perhaps silicia, and you have to use that in the process to create cement, i think it would end up making more sense, be more realistic and more challenging than adding regular stone and iron ore together.

[nagapito]

row 410 and 411 in refining-override-bob.lua somehow removes the explosives recipe causing line 283 in override-functions to crash

youst wanted to share if it helps anybody.

Bugs is that way -------> viewtopic.php?f=185&t=25468&p=265039#p265039

[nagapito]

If there's any change I'd like to see, it's a change to how cement is made. Currently it's made using stone, water and iron ore, which means you need to produce iron ore or get it as an end result, and a problem is that iron ore is terrible storage wise. Nuggets are 3 plates per two nuggets and stack up to at least 100 so that's 150 iron plates per stack. Pebbles are 4->2 but stack into 200's and so will contain a full stack of plates. normal ore however is half a stack of plates, and so turning stuff into regular iron ore is a bit tedious. But that said, Cement is usually made from mostly limestone, majority of the rest is Silica, and then very small percentages of iron and magnesium. If we changed the reciepes you get from say, mining Jivoite and crontium to giving crushed limestone instead, or perhaps silicia, and you have to use that in the process to create cement, i think it would end up making more sense, be more realistic and more challenging than adding regular stone and iron ore together.

There is already limestone from washing plants.

But it was added just before v15 showed up so... who knows, maybe that is already part of some yet non-implemented plan for limestone

[Zyrconia]

Making that more complicated with having to deliver some acid via train to 5+ remote outposts with RSO is for me the very definition of annoying...

And the rest of Angel's isn't with all the massive fluid processing, loads of different steps of processing, getting half a dozen different products per processing step and so on is not "the very definition of annoying"?

Yes, it kind of is. At least with the myriad of byproducts you get just for setting up plastic.

That's why I don't want even more annoyance. And to keep the annoyance in the part of producing goods and managing supply lines, not at the very start at the mining phase. I can already see a base that relies heavily on infinite ore and your main base runs out of acid and you get into a deficiency loop that you need 30 minutes to fix.

[Catfight]

Making that more complicated with having to deliver some acid via train to 5+ remote outposts with RSO is for me the very definition of annoying...

And the rest of Angel's isn't with all the massive fluid processing, loads of different steps of processing, getting half a dozen different products per processing step and so on is not "the very definition of annoying"?

Yes, it kind of is. At least with the myriad of byproducts you get just for setting up plastic.

That's why I don't want even more annoyance. And to keep the annoyance in the part of producing goods and managing supply lines, not at the very start at the mining phase. I can already see a base that relies heavily on infinite ore and your main base runs out of acid and you get into a deficiency loop that you need 30 minutes to fix.

Isn't this why people can use overflow valves or pumps to ensure that acid would never be delivered unless a certain amount of reserves exist for it in the main base?

[aklesey1]

Hi people, how do u like idea to mine jivolite and crotinnium with some acid or fluid or another catalytic item?

[Airat9000]

How to disable unlimited resources in generation?

[steinio]

How to disable unlimited resources in generation?

They will be disabled with this trigger mod but it's not updated to 0.15: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Arch666A ... finiteores

Greetings, steinio.