electric trains

[arbron]

What if the locomotives worked sort of like this:

The easiest way to set them up would be to replace your diesel locomotives with electric ones and provide power along or to the tracks. This will draw power directly from the grid to power the train but the train will be unable to operate when the power is off or the train is outside the area with power.

Each locomotive will also have an equipment grid just like your power armour that will take many of the same modules. So you could fill it up completely with batteries to store power while outside the grid, or you could fill it with solar panels to lower power usage during the daytime, or fill it with fusion generators to power it all the time.

Potentially some of the other modules like shields and laser defenses could be used to defend the train against alien attacks.

This method would allow for one type of electric locomotive that becomes more powerful the more resources you spend on it, much like the electric furnace starts with the same stats as the steel furnace but can be upgraded with modules.

There could even be new pieces of equipment for that locomotive that increase the train's maximum speed or acceleration at the expense of extra power usage.

[SeigneurAo]

Oh god, electric trains would be SO awesome !

[ctnewmanfan]

Was just thinking about trains and realized very few trains nowadays burn their own fuel. They run on high voltage power lines above the track. It would be cool to see a higher tech option (fairly late game) for trains that run on electricity with rails that have overhead wires. You could have new electric locomotives and everything

[Lav]

Er... plenty of trains burn their own fuel nowadays. It's way more efficient over large distances.

Apart from that, electric trains would be nice, for as long as their coal-per-mile effectiveness is worse than regular trains.

[Nexarius]

Good idea then we could also have a "accumulator wagon" so we don't have to run power lines everywhere. (more weight = slower acceleration)

I don't really see a good reason to give the electric trains worse efficencies ...?

[roberwt]

This is already suggested so many times. There are a lot of mods which add this. But I dont see any real reason this should be added to vanilla.

[orzelek]

This is already suggested so many times. There are a lot of mods which add this. But I dont see any real reason this should be added to vanilla.

Main reason for having vanilla electric trains is that modded ones are usually hacked in one way or another.
Even allowing locomotive to pull power from it's own module grid would be enough I think (solar or fusion power would go inside).

[ssilk]

Added to the ideas below electric trains in viewtopic.php?f=80&t=17734 New types of vehicles (train, tank, car, plane, ship...)

[bobingabout]

The Hull railway electrification was cancelled because apparently diesel trains are fine.

Although a locomotive can't use any power source other than burner (the power_source tag was actually replaced with a new tag, "burner" in 0.15), what you can do is create a new type of fuel item, and "Burn" that in a locomotive. EG, You could add a fuel value to the battery, and set it as fuel category electric. Then in theory, you can have a battery operated locomotive. Could even have a nuclear powered trains!

This is all via modding by the way, suggesting built in electrified railways and electric locomotives is still a valid suggestion.

[OdinYggd]

The Hull railway electrification was cancelled because apparently diesel trains are fine.

Although a locomotive can't use any power source other than burner (the power_source tag was actually replaced with a new tag, "burner" in 0.15), what you can do is create a new type of fuel item, and "Burn" that in a locomotive. EG, You could add a fuel value to the battery, and set it as fuel category electric. Then in theory, you can have a battery operated locomotive. Could even have a nuclear powered trains!

There is another way.

In my yet-unreleased steam locomotives, I hooked directly onto the axle energy buffer. Like so I am able to 'burn' the fuel with water in a way suitable for a steam locomotive, and then buffer the resulting energy in a 'boiler' value that then feeds the axles.

Like so I was able to get somewhat realistic steam engine operations even with the limitations.


Electric and diesel hybrid locomotives have been desired for quite a while though.

Unfortunately, it seems that outside of metro areas the electric locomotives lose their way to diesels. The maintenance costs of electrification far exceeds the maintenance costs of diesel power. The electric holds an advantage in power to weight ratio that makes it well suited to the frequent stops and starts of a metro rail, but on longer lines the diesel wins in lowered operating costs over longer routes with less frequent stops.

[Setha]

Forget about the US when it comes to eletric trains...

The EU shows that long distance electric traction is not only possible but the (way) more efficient way of hauling goods.
Apart from generation electric traction is generally about 3 to 5 times more efficient than Diesel traction. The question is, if you are able to produce that electricity in an efficient manner (nuclear reactor *cough*) and if you are willing to invest in the necessary infrastrucutre.
It is damn expensive to electrify the tracks but once you have the wires its a lot cheaper to run the trains...

[WeCraft]

Electric trains: would have the acceleration of coal(wood even) powered trains, but the top speed would be that of solid fuel ones. In order for them to work, you would require overhead electric poles(kind of like these:

but just going only over 1 track), but the added bonus would be that these poles would also transfer electricity - you wouldn't need to connect (big) electric poles to outposts.

[Factory Lobster]

Or they could implement the Minecraft solution: powered rail. Just add copper to the crafting recipe and give the track a slightly different look.

Edit: off topic, but I see we became members of this forum only 19 minutes apart. Funny.

[Engimage]

Check out mods

https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Hermios/RailPowerSystem
seams to be exactly what you expect

https://mods.factorio.com/mods/magu5026/ElectricTrain

something nearby

Factorio devs are not planning to introduce new types of rails until 1.0 release which is not happening until this christmas at least

[mp0011]

My idea of electric trains:

- powered from third rail in the middle of the track:
= easier to design,
= easier to upgrade,
= easier to distinguish,
= not colliding with electric poles/wires
= can ride tank on the tracks without hitting it etc.

- require transformer station each xx tiles, powered from the grid. Rails are considered powered if they are within trafo station range.
= trafo station wastes some power (drain)

- may have acumulator wagon to ride on unpowered rails.

[JimBarracus]

You could use the portable fusion reactor to power an electric train
the current train needs 600kW and the Fusion reactor can provide 750kW.

Vanilla still lacks a stationary solution for the fusion reactor

[d3x0r]

You could use the portable fusion reactor to power an electric train
the current train needs 600kW and the Fusion reactor can provide 750kW.

Vanilla still lacks a stationary solution for the fusion reactor

(use uranium fuel)
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/GotLag/N ... ocomotives

infinite power train
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/magu5026/FusionTrain

Although - I would like autonomous electric trains - maybe that recharge themselves like accumulators when they reach stops.

[maxerature]

TL;DR

A faster, late game train and carts which change what a train can do.

What ?

I suggest a second type of train, used for late game transportation. This would be an electric train. That means that it would require electricity along the rails anywhere you want it to accelerate, and if a certain number of rails go by without electricity, the train would start to decelerate and eventually stop. Alternately, a new type of rail which is electrified could be used.

This new train type would be much faster than the current trains, but able to pull less. Currently, trains running on rocket fuel can have a large number of carts without its maximum speed being lowered. My version of electric trains would only be able to pull 2 carts at maximum speed. The current maximum speed of trains is around 300 km/h. Electric trains would go at around 1250km/h, mach 1. Each cart beyond the first 2, however, would reduce the maximum speed by around 250 km/h. That means that with 3 carts the maximum speed is "only" 1000 km/h, 4 carts would be 750 km/h, and with 5 carts, it would only run at 500 km/h. Still faster than with the current trains. Anything beyond 5 carts would cause the train to be unable to run.

I propose that along with the new electric train, modular carts be added. These would only function with the electric train, and would provide a special boost to the train, not unlike current modules for armor. All of these, except for one, would also only count as only half a cart for speed reduction purposes, as well as for the 5 cart limit. If the "number" of carts is not whole, it is rounded up. For how many carts each train can pull, module carts are ignored. Each cart would have a small inventory, most likely 10 slots, and could draw items they use from other carts. Only a total of 5 module carts could be added to any train. The types of carts would be:

Artillery Cart
Condition Cart
Blueprint Cart
Construction Cart
Speed Cart

The artillery cart is just as it sounds, a cart which would shoot explosive shots at any enemy within range of the train.
Most likely a new ammo type would be added, but it would also be interesting if it just shot out grenades or cluster grenades which couldn't cause friendly fire.

Artillery Cart.png (11.77 KiB) Viewed 7595 times

The Speed cart would increase the speed of the cart but also increase the speed reduction per cart. I feel like the speed increase should be 250 km/h per cart, but increase the reduction by 100 km/h. This would affect the speed as follows:
Maximum Speed per speed cart additions
Normal Carts 1 cart 2 carts 3 carts 4 carts 5 carts
0 1400 1650 1800 2050 2200
1 1300 1550 1700 1950 2100
2 1200 1450 1600 1850 2000
3 1100 1350 1500 1750 1900
4 1000 1250 1400 1650 1800
5 900 1150 1300 1550 1700
Speed carts could lead to major gains in speed, but at the cost of a large amount of potential inventory space.

Speed Cart.png (12.05 KiB) Viewed 7595 times

The construction cart would allow for automated expansion. With this cart attached and rails in the train's inventory, the train is able to place rails down under it as it goes. Not only that, but the train can ram into anything in front of it and keep going, as it places down rails behind it. This obviously allows for easy expansion of a rail system.

Construction Cart.png (11.59 KiB) Viewed 7595 times

The blueprint cart is a type of automated roboport. You can place construction bots in special slots, as well as a blueprint book. These do not count as part of the cart's inventory. This cart also counts as a full 1.5 carts, as it would have a normal cart inventory size as well as modular capabilities. With this cart equipped, the construction bots can be told to place down blueprints, tear down anything around the train, and place down landfill in front of the train if paired with a construction cart. The blueprint placed down could also be changed to others in the book if certain conditions are met.

Blueprint Cart.png (10.57 KiB) Viewed 7595 times

The last cart is the conditions cart. This takes certain events taken by the train, such as how much of a certain item is in its inventory, how many tiles have been traveled, or conditions set by a station uploaded to the train (an item and number, like with inserters or any other circuit network item), then has the train take a certain action. The actions could be switching the blueprint, uploading a different condition to stations it passes, or placing down a rail curving left or right when paired with the construction cart.

Condition Cart.png (12.05 KiB) Viewed 7595 times

Why ?

I often see the problem in my games where trains take forever to reach far off stations due to all closer stations being depleted, which can be solved by both faster trains and the speed carts. Trains also seem to be far from fully realized. The potential for them is huge, but they are simply a type of mass transportation, a passive part of many bases, rather than the active effort they could be. I feel like this would add depth to the game.



EDIT: Everything I say here is just an idea. If the devs decide to take anything from it, I'm sure they can balance the mechanics better than I ever could. For instance, in my original post, only 5 carts would be able to be pulled, but if added to the game this would most likely be changed to a higher number, such as 10. I also stated (rather confusingly) that modular carts would count for speed reductions but not for maximum cart limits. Instead of that confusing idea, it'll count against both speed reduction and the maximum possible carts, which I updated my post to state.

[Jap2.0]

A few things:

• 1. This would not work well with double-headed trains. An engine has as much weight as 2 cars, so a train with 1 forward-facing engine and one backward-facing engine would slow down with any cars. The same exact thing would happen with 2 of each forward and backward engines, and so on. Also consider that many electric trains IRL have forward and backward facing engines.
  2. Do you realize that's over FOUR TIMES the speed of current trains? That's kind of OP. Sure, it would probably be more expensive, and would require electricity, but it's not like I couldn't have a train with eight cars. Just use four engines. If it's too expensive to do that, then they aren't a viable source of transportation, considering that at that point you would probably have dozens of trains.
  3. They would have to be incredibly hard to control. To work properly with normal trains, they would have to go from full speed to a complete stop in the same amount of time. At a top speed over four times as high. Normal trains are hard enough to control as is.
  4. What would the benefit be over having a normal train 4 times as long, or simply 4 normal trains?

[maxerature]

A few things:

• 1. This would not work well with double-headed trains. An engine has as much weight as 2 cars, so a train with 1 forward-facing engine and one backward-facing engine would slow down with any cars. The same exact thing would happen with 2 of each forward and backward engines, and so on. Also consider that many electric trains IRL have forward and backward facing engines.
  2. Do you realize that's over FOUR TIMES the speed of current trains? That's kind of OP. Sure, it would probably be more expensive, and would require electricity, but it's not like I couldn't have a train with eight cars. Just use four engines. If it's too expensive to do that, then they aren't a viable source of transportation, considering that at that point you would probably have dozens of trains.
  3. They would have to be incredibly hard to control. To work properly with normal trains, they would have to go from full speed to a complete stop in the same amount of time. At a top speed over four times as high. Normal trains are hard enough to control as is.
  4. What would the benefit be over having a normal train 4 times as long, or simply 4 normal trains?

I don't understand the issue with the first one, yes, it would cause problems with double headed trains. But that would difficulty is just part of the trade offs for the modules and higher speed.

I also do know that the speed is over 4 times that of current trains. I stated that in my original post. The compatibility issues with regular could be a problem, which is why I included the note about a potentially different rail type. I'd like the idea of this being similar to a maglev train. That way this train type would never need to interact with regular trains.

Control could be an issue, but I initially had the idea of making these always run on automatic, and have a "stopped" position instead of a manual for the control slider. That way it goes to stations and follows what the condition cart tells it to do, which would eliminate control issues.

The benefit is that trains are slow. The problem isn't that the trains don't get resources back before I run out because I don't have enough trains, it's because it takes nearly 10 minutes for my trains to get to my closest ore outposts, since I depleted all the closer ones, and I know this is an issue many people see with long time maps.


My job in this suggestion was to provide an idea, not to make a perfectly balanced game mechanic. I don't know what the devs envision for the game, but I feel that this could solve many problems if implemented well.

How do you feel about the concept of modular carts? You gave good criticism about the train itself, and for that I thank you!