Vote to Kick/Ban

[Deadly-Bagel]

Reputation services can be quite effective yet (relatively) simple to implement. Say you have the option of reporting a player, if a condition is met (might be configurable per server, eg % of votes, admin only, etc) that server reports the offender. One report on its own does nothing, you need say 3 servers to report you and then you lose the Deconstruction Planner, then the ability to place ghosts, then modify other players' entities, etc until at some point your account is permanently banned from multiplayer at say 20 reports.

Now you need something to balance the reports, I'd avoid a "good" reputation as most players wouldn't bother. It could be something as simple as randomly between 1 week and 1 month you lose a report (the number is hidden to you) as long as you have been actively playing multiplayer.

Lastly a means to stop it being used to grief, which is quite simple. In addition to your reputation, you have a report reputation. If you frequently report players (especially those with low reputation), and those players don't get further reports against them, your reports carry no weight. You can still boot them from the server but it won't affect their reputation.

The biggest problem is the security of the reputation server, it would need to be very secure against attacks.

[darkfrei]

Which means in practice: Add game-mechanic to protect your property (what you built) from griefing. For example an electric fence around your factory that kills everybody that touches that fence and only you has the key to turn off the fence.

By robot deconstructing is impossible to compare who built this entity and who is marked to deconstruction.

There is no Last_User who built, only who is marked the entity.

O have suggested on_pre_marked_to_deconstruction, but get no reply.

[Koub]

Create servers with private access, where the admin only gives the password to people he personally knows, trusts, and wants to play with. No griefers.
Create open servers where whoever wants can come in. Say hello to griefers.

[boksiora]

Hi,

Those trolls are annoying

Maybe make some report system and raking system so we can ban trolls.
If someone is reported as troll he cant join games for a day or some time..


Also some rules when the player is banned from few games the game should display alert when he joins

[Kane]

This will never happen period. If you have trolls on a server get a proper admin to run it. Those kind of systems tend to be ran by trolls instead.

[boksiora]

It will be very good if you can type

Code: Select all

/report Dat_coffee

and next time he joins a game a warning will be dislayed

like

Code: Select all

Notification: Dat_coffee has been reported by 10 players in the past week

[ssilk]

This is a very good idea.
Until there is the message

Code: Select all

Notification: boksiora has been reported by 10 players in the past week

Because a troll found out how to compromise that system.

[darkfrei]

How about save game backup on every griefer entering?

[ssilk]

My strategy as griefer then: I come in, wait 1 hour and then...

PS: It's griefer, not troll!

[darkfrei]

My strategy as griefer then: I come in, wait 1 hour and then...

But you are need to save it before! Are you doing that?

[ssilk]

My strategy as griefer then: I come in, wait 1 hour and then...

But you are need to save it before! Are you doing that?

Of course: The game was saved on hour before, when I came into the game. The other players have build about 10.000 new entities in that time, me (the griefer) just waited...

[darkfrei]

But you are need to save it before! Are you doing that?

Of course: The game was saved on hour before, when I came into the game. The other players have build about 10.000 new entities in that time, me (the griefer) just waited...

How about global UNDO all massive deconstructing of them? For admins and moderators, not for all.

[ssilk]

Me (as griefer) would construct then instead: Add belts at unpleasant area for example. Much more mean and just one example of many.

BTW: an UNDO function would be useful for normal players too..


And I keep my opinion: Griefers can be part of the game.

...

I think griefers must be thought about like terrorists. When you think into that direction, then you come to much more useful ideas.

For example: A player owns, what he builds. Nobody can change that, but the player. Or those who owns a "change key", which he only get from the player.
And the player controls that keys also from distance. For example he can remove the keys automatically when he logs out or give other players the ability to create keys for his buildings. And so on. So the player builds a network of trust to other players. The more tight this "network of trust" is, the less fun for a griefer.

[boksiora]

Ok here is simplified ruleset that will work in most situations

1) make new /report command
2) player cant use /report command if he is not in the game for at least 1 hour
3) if player has been reported he cant use the /report command for some time (this can be geometric progression)




Those griefers are serious problem. They can ruin hours of fun with few grenades.


Pls make something



PS: I like the idea of "change key", but what about the grenades?

[vtx]

Change key : I love that, griefer will now be able to place item that cannot be remove by other players.

/report : Good luck if you join a server own by griefers they will /report you when you enter their server. The griefer can join your server and then wait the required time and /report you.

Most of the time griefers will use the tool supposedly to prevent them against normal players. To date the best way to prevent griefer is to restrict access to your server. If they can't join they can't harm you.

If you want to play with others only open 1 slots at a time to see if the player is not a griefer.

[boksiora]

ok extended way

lets assume you cant use /report command if you are not in the game for 1 hour

hard ban maybe is not the solution

but at least make a rank or reputation system

Report pseudocode

Code: Select all

if(player_sends_report) {
  if(player_reputaton > 1){
	// player can report
	troll_player_reputation = troll_player_reputation - (destroyed_ally_buildings * times_reported)
  }
}

Join game pseudocode

Code: Select all

if(player_reputaton < 1){
// player is reported ... show game notification 
} else {
// show reputation score
}

Gain reputation

if you play X game-hours without /report your reputation goes up




If you combine this logic with "change key" logic trolls will be doomed.

Why?


1) "change key" logic does not allow them to change buildings
2) reputation penalty of (destroyed_ally_buildings * times_reported) is harsh and when they use grenade to destroy a lot of stuff they will have big penalty





hope this is useful and we can solve this troll problem

[vtx]

Change key by itself will be more easily for griefer to use because instead of removing / destroying entity they can now just place entity all over the map. Change key prevent other player to remove your entity.

For grenade a simple friendly fire OFF can do the trick.

Any system that rely on global information hold on master server (factorio server ) can be "hack" directly without playing. How can you place a secure system while you can alter some data on master server from many server not owned by factorio ( game server ) ?

[DerivePi]

Any actionable consequence must be based on breaking some established rules such as:
1. Changing small stuff (belts, inserters, power poles, 1 or 2 assemblers over a countdown timer...) is never griefing.
2. Changing big stuff is not griefing if:
- The person who built it doesn't complain (if a deconstruction limit of their factory is met by another player they are prompted to complain to that player and that player receives a warning)
- The person who is deconstructing stops and waits through a countdown for the complaint to be dismissed
- A quorum of the rest of the players don't agree that it was griefing. After continuing to deconstruct the rest of the players are notified of the complaint and allowed to vote on kicking that player.
3. For team co-op, killing another player is not griefing if:
- It only happens once within a countdown
- The player killed doesn't complain
- A quorum doesn't agree.

Maybe when a player is kicked they receive a report, but I don't think anyone wants the responsibility or has the authority to prevent a consumer from enjoying the multiplayer game they purchased except for local server hosts as it regards their server. As for treating griefers like terrorists, I don't think griefers should be hunted down, shot through the head and them dumped into the ocean just because they are stupid kids.

[torne]

1. Changing small stuff (belts, inserters, power poles, 1 or 2 assemblers over a countdown timer...) is never griefing.

This immediately just suggests a griefing strategy of finding out-of-the-way parts of the factory and just rotating/removing/adding a couple of individual segments of belt so that the belts get mixed and production gradually halts.

Not that I'm planning to do so Just noting that it's hard to have any objective standard the game can measure for what behaviour constitutes griefing.

[DerivePi]

This immediately just suggests a griefing strategy of finding out-of-the-way parts of the factory and just rotating/removing/adding a couple of individual segments of belt so that the belts get mixed and production gradually halts.

I think most of us would be OK with that. Could even be its own funny little game. These small mistakes happen even when players aren't trying to cause trouble and is the price for playing multiplayer.

Griefing is definitely a subjective issue. The key for me though is communication. If I tell you you're griefing me and you continue it and the community agrees with me, everyone knows you crossed several lines and you get to go play somewhere else. As a technical game, there are many OCD players that are quick to "correct" someone else's work. And the receiving OCD player is quick to cry grief. For small to moderate issues, this should be handled individually. My concern is more for the player that jumps into a game, wrecks it and then leaves.