Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Regular reports on Factorio development.
mattj256
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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by mattj256 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:18 pm

I'm super excited about 0.15! Let's see if I can finish my SpaceX playthrough before you can release 0.15. ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by y.petremann » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:20 pm

For keys send like that, I think that a tagging system would be great :
The youtuber ask you for a steam key, through the youtube mp system, you give them one.
This key is not a normal one, this is a press version, this version has some differences :
  • When adding factorio on steam, it would be named as Factorio [Press Version]
  • When starting Factorio, the game would put a single message each start saying this version doesn't differ from the complete game but is made for Reviews and that the key would be disabled in xx days from the moment It was created and if no review has been done, if the key was sell from a website ... yadi yada ...
Having such message and discrimination would help fight against those selling review keys

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by bobingabout » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:18 pm

Do mods count as content?
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.
I also have a Patreon.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by Kane » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm

Re: Press Keys. This one is shameful thing and been going on for years. As a small Youtuber when I ask for a press Key I always include a video on my youtube page that is unlisted that gives a bit of proof that I'm the owner, etc etc. But still it's getting annoying how many people are reselling keys, etc and ugh.

I enjoy though that you guys been publicly sharing the stories about the key scams for resell or credit card scamming, etc. You are helping a lot of young developers and companies out there learn about the issues that come to the daily operations of a small gaming company.

Just wish people would stop trying to scam developers. The people who do this most really have no soul.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by POPISowyNumer » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:12 pm

I have question regarding the pumps.

Will the 0.15 keep the already placed pumps as legacy items, so users will have time to replace them without risking meltdowns or something?

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by Cunk » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:28 pm

Nilaus wrote:I am ambivalent about the new graphics. One the one hand they look awesome in their worn down, dirty look, but on the other hand I would love to evolve from that stage to the Angels Mod type graphics where it is nice shining industry.
I completely applaud that this is the feel of Factorio, but I would also love to see the natural "evolution" of technology. Having 1 worn down refinery makes sense, but when you create vast arrays of them then it starts to feel a bit odd that they are all worn down.

Anyways, definitely not a complaint. There are mods to "solve" that issue (Angel and Yuoki have much more hi-tech look)
Heh first thing I thought when I saw that image is "Why is this brand new chemical plant I just manufactured already rusting?"

But it looks appropriate and makes more sense for the setting. I'm not about to start demanding more realistic textures (that slowly change to properly reflect wear) in a game where I can carry factories and trains and thousands of robots around in my pockets.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by bman212121 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:37 pm

I can't see retroactively disabling the keys, because whomever bought the key would be the person hurt by that, not the streamer. That person might still be a loyal customer and thought they were getting a legitimate key because they were getting it from a well recognized source. Stede has the best idea, basically make keys that have an obvious limit on them. When you launch the game it can display a typical warning with the number of days remaining, that way if a streamer does try to sell the key, the buyer will be aware very quickly they didn't get a normal key. If they do publish a review, then you can "reward" them with a new key or two, and if they sell those then at least you got publicity and you have a wider audience playing the game. Word of mouth from owners of the game likely have more weight than even streamers / reviewers do.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by 0xE1 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:29 am

Why would anyone even buy anything digital from sources other than legal entity like gog/steam/gmg/etc?
If you're buying from private entity, there's high chance it's related to fraud and stolen credit cards.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by dewiniaid » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:38 am

Posted this on Steam as well, but:

I don't think revoking current resold keys is a good option: It only punishes those who've bought the keys thinking they were legit, not those who actually sold them.

A compromise solution going forward might be:
  • Have future press keys be time limited
  • Have "press copies" show a disclaimer at startup indicating that they're a press copy and such and that they're time limited. This reminds people to not sell them, and lets someone who bought one know they were probably scammed and to contact you guys.
  • Have a means of converting press copies to normal keys after reviews/etc have been posted.
  • Possibly, as a "thank you" for the reviews, give the reviewer a couple more keys for promotional stuff after the review is posted. (e.g. so they can do giveaways on their channel)

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by Programmdude » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:41 am

I agree with bman212121, the stream would have already gotten money from the customer, unless the customer issues a chargeback, the streamer wouldn't get hurt by you disabling the key. Having a separate version that is the press version might help, although I assume you are fairly limited in what steam will let you do with keys, if they can be time limited, etc.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by Albrat » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:53 am

I do not think my Youtube channel is big enough to request a steam Review key. Plus I would rather purchase a copy of Factorio because I love the game.
What I would like to do is have access to the early release of 15.x so I could make a pre-release video on the new features. (my current channel only has 17 subscribers and many views...) I am growing the channel at the moment and it has been heavily focussed on Factorio game play.
My YT channel is "Albrat gaming" . I have currently only played a couple of seasons of factorio and have not featured the 14.x version of the game on my channel yet. (12.35 and 13.21 are my current series.)

I have read almost everything I can find about the 15.x update and it sounds really interesting. (I purchased Factorio in the early stage, can not remember the build number. But it was before the steam release.) I downloaded several seperate versions and have about 4 different versions of factorio installed on my computer currently, plus the steam release.

So yes, Youtuber... no, I do not need or want a review copy. Just a early access preview on my current purchase. :P if possible. :)
though to be honest I would do a video about 15.x on release day anyway as I have heard so much about it and really want to get hold of a copy and see how some of the new features work. (early people to release tutorial videos about the new power systems are going to get alot of views for the new factorio version. Plus it will get the word out there about the 15.x update.)

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by Ohz » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:01 am

Everyone should pay the game. It's equality.

I am piano tuner, and I never tune a piano for free. I practice years without being paid, I bought tools, and I had to work for another job while getting just decent. Devs too, everyone does. I paid the product his full price, and don't care about discount, everyone should pay not the "full" price, simply the RIGHT price. Like there is no "small problem to fix on your piano, I will make a discount because you're cool", there is a problem, this is the right price. No cheating. On both sides.

quote
Last edited by Ohz on Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm not english, sorry for my mistakes

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by Crazy_Adept1797 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:04 am

How soon can we expect to see the full suite of HD textures in game? Big features take time to develop and I can respect that. You lovely lot can take all the time you need. So, I'm only asking about the textures, as they look about done, frankly.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by Radic1848 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:30 am

About a month ago I asked one of my favorite streamers to try Factorio. He is small (about 2,700 twitch followers) but the site said that anyone over 1,000 followers could contact wube for a preview copy. I was excited to see him play because he likes to approach things logically and he completed one of my favorite puzzle games (Jelly no Puzzle) which is fairly hard. I told him about Factorio and pointed out he could try multiplayer so his viewers who owned the game could join in. I was disappointed when he said he got an e-mail back saying he didn't meet internal requirements. Thank-you for the context, it sounds like a frustrating situation to be in.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by malecord » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:24 am

I disagree with this argument that revoking keys only hurts the final buyer.

It's because final buyers choose to purchase from shady sellers that this happens. Educate them and you fix the issue.

In the material world pretty much every civil state has laws that punish who buys from an obvious fence. But that is "RL" in the year 2017: tribunals and law enforcement have the exclusive monopoly in justice administration but more or less get you always covered.

When instead you operate in a deregulated world such as the Internet is today most of the times no authority exists to help you. You have to make justice by yourself or just accept to be abused.


With that been said in addition to revoking keys I think indie devs should also create some closed community (or a bunch of them) where to share blacklists of YouTubers.

The review mechanism is a good one. But very often people forgets that it can be applied in two ways.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by JulianSkies » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:32 am

For what's worth, Malecord, what is happening here is closer to someone buying stolen goods at Walmart (because theoretically the content-maker they shared keys with is, up to everyone's knowledge at the time, legitimate) because one of the managers snuck those in there.
It's a question to be pondered, at least.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by someuid » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:35 am

As a bonus, we added a tint to the working animation of chemical plants, so you can tell what recipes are being processed. Some of them are quite similar, so it isn't as easy to tell which is which, but it's certainly clearer than it was before.
So I have an idea to help make these different recipes easier to pick out. The chemical plants look to have a vat of bubbling liquid that changes color depending on the recipe. How about you add some bubbles that pop out of the vat now and then. This way you can release a puff of steam similar in color and add some drips, splashes, and runs of similar colored liquid onto the chemical plant. I see the rust lines and they look great, but maybe some drips and splotches would help add that extra bit of liquid factory and pollution feeling, and help show off those recipe colors a bit more.

Of course, this could also get out of control, leading you to adding leaks in the pipes, pumps, and spillage on the terrain. But it would also be cool......

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by Zavian » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:22 am

Ok. Three points and a proposed solution I'd like to cover.

1. De-activating sold keys
If you start de-activating press keys that have been sold then some of the players that are affected are going to complain and rant on online forums without realising or understanding why the key they had brought was de-activated. Even when you do notice the online complaints and post to the same forum, not all readers will accept your explanation of why the keys were de-activated. Sooner or later one of the gaming news sites will also run the story, possibly without bothering to check why the keys were de-activated.

All in all potentially enough of a public relations mess that i personally would probably want to avoid doing this.

2. Repeat request for keys.
Simple solution. Simply forward them a copy of the same keys, (being clear that you are just resending the same keys, on the assumption that the original mail got lost, misfiled or accidentally deleted). They should get the idea soon enough.

3. People asking for press keys who don't publish reviews/videos.
A few thoughts. They could still be getting around to it, in which case cancelling their key probably just means that they never get around to it. Some of them probably thought the game looked cool/interesting, then just never got into it. If they genuinely do make reviews/videos, then if they are playing and enjoying the game the content should come.

Feeling forced to push out content before they are ready, or for a game they aren't enjoying isn't a good idea either. A 20 minute video of someone in the burner phase of the game isn't really showing the best part of Factorio. Similarly I doubt a video of someone playing a game they aren't enjoying is worthwhile publicity content. So just accept that some of people who request keys will be late in producing content, and that some will never get around to it.

4. Possible Solutions.
I'm pretty sure you can't sell or trade away games in your Steam library, so activate the product directly to the appropriate Steam user library. I'm guessing that Valve/Steam don't offer appropriate infrastructure for this, otherwise you would already do this.

If you can't do the above, then do the equivalent by offering reviewers/Youtubers etc a free account here that lets them download the full game, plus gives mod portal/multiplayer access, but doesn't give them a Steam key. You could optionally make that account time limited, with the option for you to reactivate/extend the time when it expires, or transfer them to a regular account with a free steam key etc.

Edit: Fixed typo's.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by Zeblote » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:13 am

Zavian wrote:Ok. Three points and a proposed solution I'd like to cover.

1. De-activating sold keys
If you start de-activating press keys that have been sold then some of the players that are affected are going to complain and rant on online forums without realising or understanding why the key they had brought was de-activated.
The game could just display what's going on. For example:

"You're using a free press key. It will expire in 90 days!"
"Your free press key has expired. Please purchase the game to continue playing."

This will also help shift the blame to where ever they got that key from - if you buy a cheap key and the game tells you it's going to expire soon, you can report the seller immediately.

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Re: Friday Facts #181 - Calm before the storm

Post by AssaultRaven » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:04 am

I reiterate my previous concern about the pump graphic redesign: by appearance, the new design makes them look like positive displacement pumps, but fluid mechanics currently treats them like centrifugal pumps.

If you're going to combine the two, then the pump animation should at least slow down to properly represent the amount of fluid being moved, so that the graphics aren't misleading about what's happening in the pipes.

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