burner devices are kinda pointless

[Darkreaver1980]

Hi there,

i realy like the game, but all the burner stuff is kinda pointless, because the jump between burner devices and the electric stuff is way to fast/easy.

I allways end up using only 1-2 burner devices at the game start (sandbox) and scrapping them when i have the first electric generator after 10 minutes.

Using the burner stuff is realy fun for me...because it feels very different from the electric stuff, i like chopping wood but sadly there is no point using it after 10 minutes in the game.

For me, the game progression should be:

Handtools - burner devices - electricy - high tech - best stuff

My suggestions:

all electric stuff needs to be researched first.
the first electric stuff should be very ineffectient, so that burner devices are still worth it. How about making the current electric generator only available later in the game and use some coal plant as first electric generator. It should use ALOT of coal/wood
Maybe make some MKII, MKIII burners etc which are much faster than the first electric stuff? would give a reason to continoue using burners.

btw, my native language isnt english, so keep all errors

[kovarex]

But researching depends on electricity, you would need burner lab for that

[Darkreaver1980]

Thats true.

the electric stuff should just be harder to get, this way the burners wouldnt be that pointless.

[wrtlprnft]

But researching depends on electricity, you would need burner lab for that

Maybe the amount of electricity required can differ depending on what's being researched. So for each technology you set the amount of red/green/blue/alien juice, the time and the power the lab requires. This would improve with the lab efficiency research

Maybe make turrets easier to research than electricity, so you don't have to protectively hover around your labs for so long.

[syneris]

Burners can be very efficient for some tasks. Objects with a low demand for loading make great use of burning inserters. Turrets for example have long delays between attacks that they might sit full on ammo. No need to run power lines all the way out to them if you use burners. You can also feed a burning miner on coal with another burning miner. Stack 2 or 3 together and one loading of coal will last until the resources are depleted. You could use just one piece of coal to start the whole process by having them feed each other at first.

I'd like to see coal powered generators for areas without easy water access. About the same as solar, but running on coal would allow them to function at night. You wouldn't be able to do much with them besides power a few lights and and inserter or two.

[rk84]

I think burners have they use in small far away mining operations. But I guess if field is big enough I would use bigger miners with solars.
Here is my small coal mining unit.


I think as for extra feature. Burners could have little light like furnaces have.

[syneris]

I was thinking something more like this:


The front burners will run out of resources before the back need to be refilled. At that point, rotate all of them 180 degrees

[rk84]

aa nice setup. But mine is! er... cuter.

[orbito]

Those two pictures have made me realize how awesome burners are.

[LoSboccacc]

An idea to make them more useful would be to allow coal burners (just them) able to be loaded directly from a belt pointing in their direction, then you can automate on coal power alone.

[MF-]

Or simply allow them to load themselves when handling coal.

[Staxxy]

But you still cannot automatically feed combustion inserters.

[MF-]

But you still cannot automatically feed combustion inserters.

Why wouldn't be my proposal enough?
If an inserter could feed itself when handling coal, what piece would be missing?
EDIT: to be sure: "Insterter being able to feed itself when handling coal" == Insterter supplies something with coal. When it is low on fuel, it instead releases the piece of coal when the arm is in the middle, so it drops inside it.

Inserters can feed other insterters...

[Staxxy]

Wasn't refering your suggestion but the two screens on the first page. Sorry, should have been clearer.

[syneris]

Why do things need to be permanent? Burners are very mobile and well suited for temporary installations. A full chest of coal last a while without user interaction. Like mentioned, burning inserters can be used to fuel other inserters to extend the duration.

Also, if we want to be realistic, power could degrade somewhat the further away it is from the source.

[MF-]

Also, if we want to be realistic, power could degrade somewhat the further away it is from the source.

Yes, that would make burned versions of things a lot of use.

Dibs on the first place in the queue in front of the burned laser turret shop...

[Staxxy]

Also, if we want to be realistic, power could degrade somewhat the further away it is from the source.

Yes, that would make burned versions of things a lot of use.

Dibs on the first place in the queue in front of the burned laser turret shop...

If you want to be realistic you also add transformers and the like to maintain electricity tension... It's a never ending loop. IRL power line are geared well enough to counter the loss of power.

Electric stuff stills need to be viable, and that suggestions kills it, since it means having to spread steam engines everywhere.

[MF-]

If the wires got resistance, I am sure they would be coupled with transformers in the release.

[syneris]

Also, if we want to be realistic, power could degrade somewhat the further away it is from the source.

Yes, that would make burned versions of things a lot of use.

Dibs on the first place in the queue in front of the burned laser turret shop...

If you want to be realistic you also add transformers and the like to maintain electricity tension... It's a never ending loop. IRL power line are geared well enough to counter the loss of power.

Electric stuff stills need to be viable, and that suggestions kills it, since it means having to spread steam engines everywhere.

It still isn't 100%. They could add transformers to up the voltage and require a substation to bring it back down. Not sure whether that would add much to the game or be fun.

My point is that burners can still be effective beyond the start of the game. It's up to the player if they want to use them or drag power lines out everywhere they go. I'd consider them an opportunity cost.

[kovarex]

An idea to make them more useful would be to allow coal burners (just them) able to be loaded directly from a belt pointing in their direction, then you can automate on coal power alone.

I like the current way, it is not possible to make it fully automated, but it is possible to get near to it as much as you want to.
(For example, burner inserter filling the fuel for burner inserter, this will last for ages, and as you add more, the time it works grows exponentially)