A cup of multiplayer

[Raze1991]

It is not a secret that the multiplayer will be soonish at this game.
I want to talk about a particular part of this multiplayer and interaction of players with each other at this cruel world of Biters.
All players has their list of technologies and their own researches. Probably you can realize such share system, but for fullness gameplay each player must have their own research progress.

You probably have your own opinion about such details, that I would like to hear.
This game has permament death, and you can continue from a checkpoint of your save or autosave.
And what would be happened, if you die at multiplayer? You resurrected at your or your friend's base without any consequences? Or you will lose all of your researches when you press continue to play?

I have an interesting idea:
After your death you will be resurrected at spawnpoint without any researches (like a new character), but at the same time you drop a corpse with full memory of your researches, which can be taken by your new character or by another player. Then it puts into a specific building at base, and you total recall your researches without death penalty. Also, your current researches from new character (if you research something new) and from your corpse, after «resurrection», simply summed, in the case of a duplicate, one remains. Other inventory staff drops to the ground on the place of death.
To balance this, and to prevent easy way (abuse), to get researches, forbid players to use someone else's corpses.

Along with this, some problems should accompany this process. Exactly, Biters!
They will grab your corpse and drag it to the nearest hive (spawner). Not into the spawner, but near it (at least, at first stages).

[ssilk]

Nice idea.
From the logic I've a problem to explain, why the research levels depend on the player, but despite from that I like that...

Perhaps we can find a way how these ideas will fit into this: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/sea ... mit=Search

My idea: there is a building, from where we can revive, need just an alien egg.

[Raze1991]

Logic tells me that players should have their own Lists of Technologies. And it can be easy and logical to implement - all players has their own Labs for researches they choose. You build them together in parallel or sequentially and there are no problems with researches for each player. With others stuff, you can't use recipes, that you not research, but you can build all, what you can grab.

A similar situation as with the sandbox game, you can ask the chest and use all, that it contains, without any researces (if you not ask them after), but your current recipes are limited.

Example: no matter who build an Assembling machine, but each player sees their own list of recipes, that can be made on it.

[Plop and run]

but but but... what if you die in the middle of a biter nest. You will never have a chance to reclaim your corpse without proper research that you have just lost. No damage upgrades, no follower count, no way to rebuild your capsule army and no armor. And "multiplayer" does not automagically mean that there is someone who can do it for you. Maybe, you just lose your inventory? But inventory does not feel like a big loss unless in the very specific part of pre-endgame when power armor II has been recently researched.

PS when you think about it, there is so much that can go wrong in multiplayer because it has no save-load, ranging from a successful biters attack to a power crisis followed by biters attack. I'm thrilled to find out how devs solve thees problems. Factorio can't turn into a roguelike.

[Raze1991]

If you know, how it works (or would works), why do you go to the heart of the nest?
You know, that if die near large amount of spawners, you almost have no chance to get your researches back.
But! Don't forget, that I'm talking about multiplayer, not only single!
You all together with your friends can go to the hive and with Slowdown capsules (they are available at an early stages, isn't it?) distract Biters and steal your corpse from their nest. It's will be interesting part of gameplay, to not die in process, but if it happens, it will be a challenge, to return your researches on late game, if you were so ambitious that went to the heart of Biters nest, and died there.

Don't forget, that on new character (after death) you can use all stuff at your factory - all weapons and armors, you just drop your inventory stuff on the ground (as a default) and all of your researches, that eventually can learn again at Labs.
Your inventory will never have any value, cause this game hasn't any epic items or others rare stuff, that you can't recover without any problems. If you have productive factory, you can recover all of your losing stuff in less than five minutes. Most valuable in the game - your Tech tree, and the time spent to learn it. And that's what I'm talking about.

p.s. probably it so hard for casual gamers to play carefully, who wants to build factories together, without any real problems. For them was added Peaceful mode. There may be another option, with which Biters will not drag any corpses to their nests.

[andzoak]

There should be multiplayer in two modes:
1) Coopperation mode: You share all (buildings, technologies etc.) and respawn after death.
2) Competition mode: You have your own buildings and technology list and your death is permanent. Eventually you can rejoin to the game as a new player.

[Raze1991]

There should be multiplayer in two modes:
1) Coopperation mode: You share all (buildings, technologies etc.) and respawn after death.
2) Competition mode: You have your own buildings and technology list and your death is permanent. Eventually you can rejoin to the game as a new player.

Server hosting game and players join to it at any time.

Example: 2 players started at the beginning and build factory together. Theirs researches shared, and all is well. But after 3 hours, one new player came to that server. What happend with his researches? He gets all Tech, that already researched by those two? Or he has his own list of Tech, and if is so, then first offer is false.
But if it shared to new player, it becomes to easy and not interesting to players, that join not at start. Probably he want to build his own factory and research Techs by himself. Play on one server, but build different factories.
Another important factor - who choose next research? server?

Second offer seems like, what I wrote above. But you must have a chance to recover your researches, if you die. And you also can interact with building of other players and build factory together.

Shared system can be something optional. You comes to me and ask to share my researches to you at this your session, and with that you lose ability to research something. Like a freeloader, you can build something, and use all factory staff, but you can't choose research and choose what will be next. Or if you dont like so, you build your Labs near my, and research, research, and research...

[Plop and run]

If you know, how it works (or would works), why do you go to the heart of the nest?

And if I don't? What happened to the famous Factorio Experimentation? Well, I have just underestimated biters, big times. How many times did you die to big worms?

You all together with your friends

Two players is multiplayer. And, believe me, there will be so many times when they both die at the same time.

distract Biters and steal your corpse from their nest

again, worms. Also, go try and snatch that computer in the third New Hope and stay alive. Imagine that the computer is your corpse.

p.s. probably it so hard for casual gamers to play carefully.

Multiplayer is not for hardcore, it is for fun. I enjoy roguelikes very much, but no puzzle base building game can throw 8 hours of gameplay away so easily.

Also, remember: without your techs you can not build more bots, weapons or even armor, so you have to use whatever you have in the stockpile. Even if you could, without quality upgrades for followes/damage/shooting speed your offense worth nothing.

[ssilk]

Sorry, guys, you're discussing things, which can't be known yet. Wait till v0.11 and then it might make sense to continue.

[Undermind]

My ideas about mp:
- Diplomacy screen where you can mark other players as enemy/neutral/ally
- Turrets attack enemy players
- Deconstruction enemy and neutral buildings require more time
- Only ally buildings can interact
- Logistic bots interact with ally logistic system as if it part of yours
- Neutral players can interact through trade center. You build it, drop some resources, set exchange rate. Other player can drop his resource there and then extract yours (maybe too complicated to implement though)
- Chests with password
- Resources can be instantly stolen from conveyor, but you need time to lock pick chest
- Every player have his own tech tree
- Technology cost decreasing if other players research tis tech already
- Respawn after some time at starting position. Special item can change respawn location
- When you die, all items stay inside corpse and can be looted
- Goal is to build rocket defense first
- With current build system, when you can instabuild 1656135 turrets, pvp is a joke. Construction time or something is needed

[provet]

My ideas about mp:
- Diplomacy screen where you can mark other players as enemy/neutral/ally
- Turrets attack enemy players
- Deconstruction enemy and neutral buildings require more time
- Only ally buildings can interact
- Logistic bots interact with ally logistic system as if it part of yours
- Neutral players can interact through trade center. You build it, drop some resources, set exchange rate. Other player can drop his resource there and then extract yours (maybe too complicated to implement though)
- Chests with password
- Resources can be instantly stolen from conveyor, but you need time to lock pick chest
- Every player have his own tech tree
- Technology cost decreasing if other players research tis tech already
- Respawn after some time at starting position. Special item can change respawn location
- When you die, all items stay inside corpse and can be looted
- Goal is to build rocket defense first
- With current build system, when you can instabuild 1656135 turrets, pvp is a joke. Construction time or something is needed

This! I need this! I'm posting here because I don't wanna create a new thread.

[Oxyd]

To recap current situation in 0.12:

- Turrets attack enemy players

Turrets already attack players of other forces.

- Deconstruction enemy and neutral buildings require more time

Other force's buildings can't be mined. You have to shoot them.

- Only ally buildings can interact

You can only interact with buildings in your own force, or in the neutral force.

- Resources can be instantly stolen from conveyor, but you need time to lock pick chest

Resources can be instantly stolen from conveyors, no matter whose conveyor that is. Enemy chests can't be opened. I do like the idea of prying them open, though.

- Every player have his own tech tree

Every force has its own tech tree.

- With current build system, when you can instabuild 1656135 turrets, pvp is a joke. Construction time or something is needed

This is also needed to nerf turret creep against biters, not just other players.

I like the idea of extending force support to have an actual GUI and support some more fine-grained interactions between forces. Not sure if that'll happen any time soon, though.