Development and Discussion

[NewSwiss]

How to get many many many thermal water - i need it to get slag withput sulfuric waste water, the problem is that fields of thermal water meet very rarely

You need lots of high-tier speed modules (raw speed, ideally) and beacons. With bob's mk1, mk2, and mk3 beacons, you can speed a single thermal extractor to stupid high yields.

EDIT: just did some testing. Because the thermal extractor is a 9x9 entity, and the 3 tiers of bob's beacons have overlapping effect ranges, you could speed up a single almost depleted thermal extractor to the point where no amount of pipes and pumps will transmit that much fluid (ie, 240/s). Gotta love bob's modules and beacons.

[ukezi]

stick a heavy pump to it. with that much speed it can handle that easy.

[Arira]

Would be could if you add adaptation for yuoki luquid for clarifier named "Containment Water"

[Arch666Angel]

Would be could if you add adaptation for yuoki luquid for clarifier named "Containment Water"

After reading your post a couple of times I figured what you wanted Yeah possible, but why would you ever want to void contaminated water? You can make n4 and n7 dust out of it.

---

I have been working on a new vanilla mode and some improvements to make localization easier for different configurations of the mods, might be ready for testing at the start of the next week.

[chadsteam]

The major point to adding a mod and its popularity usually revolves around adding necessary components to flesh out a neglected vanilla feature or improve upon the base design. So lets recap what Bob's and Angels does.

• Bob's Mods - Adds a tier system to base components and adds some intermediates for that higher tech. It may have added a few too many intermediate ores considering how underutilized some often are, but it adds just enough buildings and upgrades to keep things useful from early to late game.
• Angel's Ores - Changes the mining method to require crushing and purifying for raw ores rather than direct mining from 10+ different ore patches. The outcome is largely dictated by the players preference on how to handle this system but it's not too cumbersome to use to great advantage, plus it cuts down on mining outposts considerably.
• Angel's Petrochem - Adds a lot more layers to one of the most lackluster of vanilla features. This mod permits dozens of different setups to obtain the end product with unique combinations and designs. There's just enough to not be too cumbersome to figure out, but it does take a fair bit of time to get it down.

These three mods do their job nicely and thus are very popular.

This is a great summary of the benefits of playing Bob's Mods and Angel's Mods together...and why I can never go back to vanilla. I agree with the suggestions that smelting could be improved by introducing tiers like the current plastics tiers in petrochem. Also, one point I'd like to make, smelting functions off of the baseline that you have already refined all of the raw materials to their base ores, iron ore, copper ore, zinc, rutile, quartz, etc. I really like the variety in Angel's refining where you can mix different biproducts to get the resources you need. Maybe with smelting, using different intermediaries, for example, smelting stiratite chunks would produce multiple molten layers based on different melting points to get better yield. Or mixing two refined crystals with a catalyst and smelting it would much produce better yield of specific finished metals at the expense of losing some of the biproducts in the refining process.


My Factorio Complaint: For those familiar with the dev team's 0.15 research overhaul ffp, I am very concerned about the drastic increase in the demand for iron in their proposed new recipes. I know it's not final, just an early look, but I've been playing with the research revolution mod, and once I reached blue science, my iron demand (and steel) basically shut down my factory to the point where 50% of what I'm doing is simply to produce more iron. For those currently watching Arumba's "Rocket per patron" series, what's his #1 problem? Every episode he's complaining about steel and iron production...or trying to figure out where he left his car.

Angel/Bob's mods create exciting variety in recipes, raw materials, and production chains that are a great fit with the idea of research/science. My frustration has doubled over the fact that we are now potentially going to be using completed products like assembler 2, turrets, electric furnaces for science research? Seriously? I like the proposal of adding Military, Production, and High Tech science packs.

I went through all of the mods for my solo game and updated the science pack recipes to get rid of the 0.15 iron demand, but leave the military, production, and high tech products and give them a truer science recipe. Here's what I did, and I think these balance the variety of raw resources in Angel/Bob's mods. *I'm not a mod maker, this is just what I am trying out to balance the resources. I feel that without this style to the science pack recipes, we don't experience the full extent of what Angel and Bob have designed.

Military: Piercing ammo, grenade, explosives (better ingredient than gun turret...still working on tech tree because Angel's petrochem requires nitroglycerin causing huge )
Science 3: Battery, White Circuit Board, Fast Inserter, Steel Plate
Production: Lithium-Ion Battery, Advanced Green Circuit Board, Filter Inserter, Titanium Plate, Silicon Nitride
High Tech: Silver Zinc Battery, Advanced Blue Circuit Board, Speed Module, Tungsten Plate, Alien Artifact (it's high tech and unlocked with alien tech research)


TL;DR -
1. Playing Angel and Bob's mods together is awesome!
2. Smelting could benefit to tier recipes like plastics in petrochem
3. 0.15 research overhaul is way too heavy on iron demand and risks pushing Angel/Bob's mods drastically out of balance.

[Arch666Angel]

TL;DR -
1. Playing Angel and Bob's mods together is awesome!
2. Smelting could benefit to tier recipes like plastics in petrochem
3. 0.15 research overhaul is way too heavy on iron demand and risks pushing Angel/Bob's mods drastically out of balance.

There will be a science overhaul in the components mod, but this will also be the base/start for the stand alone overhaul, so I cant say yet how far I can modify it to works with bobs.
The idea behind it is that every science will have a tier roughly compared to vanilla and dedicated to introducing a major aspect:
grey tech - burner stage get the basics laid out
red tech - automation get your first automated production, electricity, ore processing, basic chemistry
green tech - oil products, early robots
orange tech - trains, combinators
blue tech - full robo tech, advanced processing methods
yellow tech - end game, optimization

The next step is to extend what they try to implement with the science changes to a larger scale, so every tech will also be assigned to a category:
-processing (refining, chemistry, intermediates)
-logistics (belts, bots, inserter, trains)
-energy (boiler, steam engines, nuclear, solar, accumulators)
-warfare (weapons, armor, ammo, tanks, turrets, radar)
-enhancement (modules, equipment, power armor, tool belt, combinators)
-exploration (secret techs)

Researching the techs for a whole tier should take more time, at least so much that you can start off and build the stuff you recently unlocked. Jumping from one tech tier to the next should feel like a major effort.
For the implementation: Assigning the tiered tech pack can be done somewhat automatically, assigning the category tech packs has to be done by hand, so adding support for other mods will be one of the greater efforts needed.

[QuackerJ4ck]

Can you please add a bottling recipe for Alien Spores?

[chadsteam]

Angel, thank you for the prompt and detailed reply. Looking forward to what you have planned!

[Northgate]

I went through all of the mods for my solo game and updated the science pack recipes to get rid of the 0.15 iron demand, but leave the military, production, and high tech products and give them a truer science recipe. Here's what I did, and I think these balance the variety of raw resources in Angel/Bob's mods. *I'm not a mod maker, this is just what I am trying out to balance the resources. I feel that without this style to the science pack recipes, we don't experience the full extent of what Angel and Bob have designed.

Military: Piercing ammo, grenade, explosives (better ingredient than gun turret...still working on tech tree because Angel's petrochem requires nitroglycerin causing huge )
Science 3: Battery, White Circuit Board, Fast Inserter, Steel Plate
Production: Lithium-Ion Battery, Advanced Green Circuit Board, Filter Inserter, Titanium Plate, Silicon Nitride
High Tech: Silver Zinc Battery, Advanced Blue Circuit Board, Speed Module, Tungsten Plate, Alien Artifact (it's high tech and unlocked with alien tech research)


TL;DR -
1. Playing Angel and Bob's mods together is awesome!
2. Smelting could benefit to tier recipes like plastics in petrochem
3. 0.15 research overhaul is way too heavy on iron demand and risks pushing Angel/Bob's mods drastically out of balance.

I fully agree with your assessment and I like the way you redesigned the science packs. However I think the same that applies to gun turrets should also apply to inserter, since that doesn't make any sense to me as well. Placeable objects should not be used in science recipes. So I'd replace those with something else. It would be cool to use some kind of fluid in a recipe too to make things more interesting.

[Thurk]

Hey there! I've been working on an Angels + Bobs base for about 100 hours (I've tore down and redesigned whole sections a couple times haha) and I've been loving every minute of it. I am now looking for what to do with geodes, other than storing them in chests, since I'm playing on peaceful at the moment and don't need any of the gem stuff. I intend to convert the geodes to slurry, but I need TONS of mineralized water, which I can only get from recycling waste water. I read on the changelogs that there should be a recipe to get mineralized water from water and crushed stone (which would be amazing, since I'm making over 200 crushed stone per second), but I cannot find said recipe anywhere. Was it removed? For what it's worth, I haven't yet updated to the new versions that came out a couple weeks ago.

Cheers!

[Sirbab]

Hey there, I've been playing arumbas Angel bob's pack, and i have a bit of a question.

This is a bit of a general question, but how do you suggest dealing with an excess ores? For instance, I remember my ore sorting getting shut down due to an excess of copper. I could make a buffer, but they would eventually still fill up.

Thanks

[mexmer]

Hey there, I've been playing arumbas Angel bob's pack, and i have a bit of a question.

This is a bit of a general question, but how do you suggest dealing with an excess ores? For instance, I remember my ore sorting getting shut down due to an excess of copper. I could make a buffer, but they would eventually still fill up.

Thanks

if you using angels, then you could really early unlocks silos or warehouses, that will give you enough buffer (they are like 250 stacks or so), to deal with situation later.
other option is to mix two different crushed ores to get only one as ouput (there are such recipes in angels for sorter)

[Light]

Researching the techs for a whole tier should take more time, at least so much that you can start off and build the stuff you recently unlocked. Jumping from one tech tier to the next should feel like a major effort.

This right here is why I feel marathon is loved so much. Typically the burner phase of the game is 10 minutes before power is up and everything is rushed to bots in just a few hours, rendering most stuff obsolete.

With marathon mod, science packs take far more effort to make and the burner phase actually lasts a few hours, so by the time you get electricity it feels exceptionally rewarding to finally preserve your fuels and get things powered up.

Knowing this is the intention with your science only excites me even further, since a complaint I would typically have is that by the time you unlock something you're going to unlock the better item shortly after so you don't even care. The idea of using what you have to its full advantage because the next better thing is further away than you expect is a major improvement over the half assed spaghetti for rushing science then having all the tech unlocked to do things more seriously.

Chadsteam's thought of using bobs intermediates for science is also a great idea to burn through those lesser used ores that just take up storage space. But I'd much rather see bronze used in place of steel given bronze is only used to make pipes and serves no other purpose. Because of that, it's a resource never used, so it needs some love. It's also a 25 red science tech so it's early enough to be used in place of steel plating.

The more we can use of what we currently have the better.

[chadsteam]

Hey there, I've been playing arumbas Angel bob's pack, and i have a bit of a question.

This is a bit of a general question, but how do you suggest dealing with an excess ores? For instance, I remember my ore sorting getting shut down due to an excess of copper. I could make a buffer, but they would eventually still fill up.

Thanks

I put circuits on my outputs connected to my storage. In this example, I'm prioritizing pure iron naturally, but when copper dips below 5,000 units in the storage to the right, I block the iron output so that my mixed sorters on the left produce 2iron+1copper until my copper levels get back above 5,000 units. I imagine you could easily setup a circuit to allow copper to flow when storage falls below a specific threshold like 5,000. Then the only thing that gets backed up is your crushing and miners, which shouldn't cause factory shutdown issues.

My apologies if this doesn't work. I've never tried to add an image to a forum post before.

[NewSwiss]

Angel, I may have found a bug, though I'm not sure. I speed-beaconed the pants off a thermal extractor (+8000%), but it's capped at 30 per second output. At first I thought it was a pipe throughput issue, but:

stick a heavy pump to it. with that much speed it can handle that easy.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or intentional, but even with barreling, I couldn't get more than 30/s with speed alone. Interestingly, it can go higher than this with productivity modules in the extractor (with speed beacons around). 30 liquid per second isn't bad, but it blows my plans of getting all my (not iron.copper) ores through thermal water crystallization.

This is a bit of a general question, but how do you suggest dealing with an excess ores? For instance, I remember my ore sorting getting shut down due to an excess of copper. I could make a buffer, but they would eventually still fill up.

Warehouses are great for this. If one fills up, add another. I've got half a million misc ores just sitting around. For stuff like iron and copper, chances are you'll end up needing them eventually. Worst case, warehouses are cheap, so even storing several million ore doesn't set you back much,

Hey there! I've been working on an Angels + Bobs base for about 100 hours (I've tore down and redesigned whole sections a couple times haha) and I've been loving every minute of it. I am now looking for what to do with geodes, other than storing them in chests, since I'm playing on peaceful at the moment and don't need any of the gem stuff. I intend to convert the geodes to slurry, but I need TONS of mineralized water, which I can only get from recycling waste water.

I am in exactly the opposite situation. I've been saving all of my mineralized water since the beginning, and now I don't have nearly enough geodes to process it all. I need another way to process mineralized water into slag/slurry.

[orzelek]

I believe that size of output fluid box for the thermal extractor might limit it's effective throughput.
You could try using some mod that provides bigger size pipes and matching pumps - I'm not sure if there is a one like that. I seen few with bigger pipes but pumps are usually still 10 fluid - would need to put them in parallel then for more throughput.

[mexmer]

I believe that size of output fluid box for the thermal extractor might limit it's effective throughput.
You could try using some mod that provides bigger size pipes and matching pumps - I'm not sure if there is a one like that. I seen few with bigger pipes but pumps are usually still 10 fluid - would need to put them in parallel then for more throughput.

problem with bigger pipes is, that fluid balancing system never process more than 60 units per second (or one unit per tick), so even with bigger pipes, effective troughput is same.
we discussed that already with bobingabout some time ago, because his MK3 and MK4 power stuff has issues with troughput when using singlepipe (even if you use 20u ones instad of 10u ones), so you need multiple pumps and split to two lines, to achieve 100%
this issue can also observe people when using factorissimo, since you can't pump faster from outside to inside and vice versa.

[Arch666Angel]

The game is processing 60 ticks each second at best (=UPS), that translates into the fact that the best speed you can achieve is one craft each tick, so the maximum output for the extractor would be 60*minimum yield even if it might display other things.

[Nilaus]

Hi Angel

As you know I have been messing about with the new Logistics mod...

Yesterday as I shut down my PC and was about to go to bed I remembered that the Logistics mod page contains Loaders (viewtopic.php?f=185&t=40654), but they are no-where to be found in the game (downloaded the in-game version so not the Arumba version). Is that because there is a newer version or am I just blind and cannot find it?

Also, I have completed the first three of my tutorials for your mods. I hope they do the mods justice Please let me know what you think.
Refining 1: Basic Crushing and Sorting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJUgGY9Rtpc
Refining 2: Advanced Refining and Sorting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UuYKyGWqNA
Refining 3: Crystal and Mineral Refining: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NKjrCK8lh0

EDIT: Nevermind about the Loaders. I didn't know they required a separate mod for activating them. Now I downloaded it and it works. I still can't tell if I think it is a bit "cheating" as it trivialises a lot of inserter design...

[Light]

Also, I have completed the first three of my tutorials for your mods. I hope they do the mods justice Please let me know what you think.
Refining 1: Basic Crushing and Sorting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJUgGY9Rtpc
Refining 2: Advanced Refining and Sorting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UuYKyGWqNA
Refining 3: Crystal and Mineral Refining: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NKjrCK8lh0

EDIT: Nevermind about the Loaders. I didn't know they required a separate mod for activating them. Now I downloaded it and it works. I still can't tell if I think it is a bit "cheating" as it trivialises a lot of inserter design...

Pretty good videos, didn't see much that needed correcting. A good note would have been to mention that crystal slurry can be converted to mineral slurry if ores are more important, plus that the 0.4 actually means a 40% chance of getting that specific ore per cycle. These are two things I wish I knew when I started since after maxing out warehouses full of the 6 gems, I had more crystal slurry than I knew what to do with. I also didn't grasp what the 0.4 meant, since getting 4/10ths of an item didn't make sense, nor did it give items even after many cycles. Might be something to remark in the next video.

I also find your remark on inserter design a bit odd though, considering you're using the near inserter option for your inserters which is also "cheating" the need for tangled belt designs for a properly compressed belt. I will point out though that I find inserters are usually the better option over loaders since loaders are a 2x1 entity and I personally prefer the 1x1 inserter for a more compact design. Although, the loader certainly has its benefits that make it more ideal than inserters and in those cases I intend to use them a fair bit. Hopefully the extreme speed variants will come out as well, allowing even more rapid train loading and unloading.