Escape small island

[vtx]

Sure press esc + restart it's easy to do and quick.

Sometime you see potential into a map but you have to ESC+Restart just because you are on an island without enought ressource to let you out normally.

Sure it's fun laught the first time it happens.

Can be easily fix by allowing us to start with a small amount of landfill to let us bridge a way out.

[deepdriller]

Does this actually still happen? I've never encountered it before.
Plus, it's possible to implement an algorithm that checks one time whether the player standws on an island (I dunno, try to path from player position to the edge of the currently generated map?) and then changing their position.
Either that, or give the player the ability to tell the game just that. For instance, if the player goes to the menu immediately goes to the menu, a button might appear that lets him teleport the character manually.

[Koub]

Does this actually still happen? I've never encountered it before.

It does.

Plus, it's possible to implement an algorithm that checks one time whether the player standws on an island (I dunno, try to path from player position to the edge of the currently generated map?) and then changing their position.

At least the algorithm could just check if there is enough ressources (copper, stone, iron and coal) on the same land area as the players spawns. If it does, redo the map gen (or move the player a random number of tiles in each coordinates, until there are all the basic ressources to start a game.

[vtx]

At least the algorithm could just check if there is enough ressources (copper, stone, iron and coal) on the same land area as the players spawns. If it does, redo the map gen (or move the player a random number of tiles in each coordinates, until there are all the basic ressources to start a game.

It's my first idea to this problem but it required more code and depend on the size of that said island. The easiest solution will required only one line in control.lua inside freeplay scenario.

[Coyt]

This is where Boats would come in handy. I posted on a subject about boats earlier this month.

[Koub]

This is where Boats would come in handy. I posted on a subject about boats earlier this month.

The first suggestions about boats or mod concepts with boats have been made about 3 years ago (before 0.10.0)

[Tekky]

This is where Boats would come in handy. I posted on a subject about boats earlier this month.

That would solve the problem with being stuck on the island. However, this solution may create an additional problem, because the player would then be forced to build his base away from the center of the map. Since the enemy is stronger the further you go from the center of the map, this would effectivly increase the difficulty level of the game. Depending on the size of the water, this increase in difficulty could be significant.

[stm]

This is where Boats would come in handy. I posted on a subject about boats earlier this month.

That would solve the problem with being stuck on the island. However, this solution may create an additional problem, because the player would then be forced to build his base away from the center of the map. Since the enemy is stronger the further you go from the center of the map, this would effectivly increase the difficulty level of the game. Depending on the size of the water, this increase in difficulty could be significant.

Or it would make it a lot easier, since he has an area which is actually untouchable by biters. So after he got of the island and gathers enough stones to build a way, his island base is practically untouchable (although his outposts are not). Given of course he survives the start of the game.
In my opinion a check for an island start might be reasonable easy to add as it only has to sum up stones and check wheather they suffice to reach the outer coast line with landfill (plus some to spare), or else just add more stone or restart mapgeneration.
Boats itself are imba as long as biters can't swim!
Stm

[Deadly-Bagel]

The game (AFAIK) doesn't have a concept of islands, so it would basically have to do a scan for water in every direction and try to determine the area the player has available. This is going to be a very short function for the extremely rare cases this happens, but very expensive for nearly all the time when it is not needed.

Next, what would it accomplish? It still has to generate the map to scan it so it would just reset it, something you are perfectly capable of doing yourself. The only difference is ~2 seconds to click through the menu and you don't get to be disappointed at your "otherwise promising" map where most of the starting area (where your initial and usually largest deposits are) is mostly water.

I'm almost certain that the amount of time that would go into developing and testing this would exceed the total inconvenience suffered by players as a result of the problem. And no I don't want a boat or landfill dumped in my inventory at the start, nor do I think a boat would otherwise be particularly beneficial to the game even if you did make it out of 4 wood and ensure a tree always spawns next to the player.

[Koub]

Well you see this from the dev's perspective. I see it from the end user's perspective (and from the QA's perspective). A "thing" (whatever the thing) that works "most of the time, but sometimes you have to restart it manually because it fails due to some kind of endogenous malfunction" is the kind of things that inevitably gives the impression of unfinished or poorly engineered "thing" whereas as long as there are exogenous causes that are known to be problematic, the user doesn't blame the "thing".

I think Factorio deserves to give the good impression from the start.

[darkfrei]

It could be good, when all map is generated, but starting area has own script, that can't make any islands.

[Deadly-Bagel]

Well you see this from the dev's perspective. I see it from the end user's perspective (and from the QA's perspective). A "thing" (whatever the thing) that works "most of the time, but sometimes you have to restart it manually because it fails due to some kind of endogenous malfunction" is the kind of things that inevitably gives the impression of unfinished or poorly engineered "thing" whereas as long as there are exogenous causes that are known to be problematic, the user doesn't blame the "thing".

I think Factorio deserves to give the good impression from the start.

I have started on dozens of maps (mostly looking for a good starting area) and never had this. I know a guy who had it happen and he found it hilarious. Besides, if a check were put in place to automatically regenerate the map, a lot of players would notice the progress bar reset.

Probably a better idea would be to revise the way water is generated, at least in the starting area, to prevent it altogether.

[Koub]

The problem is the map is always the same. The only thing that changes is the spawning point. Therefore, I don't see how water could be generated differently in the starting zone.

[Deadly-Bagel]

Hmm, I remember them talking about that but then what's the point in the Water generator settings for frequency and size? Surely they haven't got 25 versions of the map stored for various water settings.

[torne]

The map isn't always the same if you change the resource/water/enemy generation parameters. Changing the seed just moves the origin (start location) across the plane of the perlin noise, but changing the generation parameters changes the perlin noise itself, and so the actual distribution of the resources/water changes.

[Deadly-Bagel]

Meh, there is a solution that could be implemented. My point is rather than bandaging the problem with an auto reload or landfill or whatever, if you're going to fix it then fix it. But I still don't think it's something to be particularly worried about.

[Xeanoa]

How about a command, like '/stuck', that's only usable before the player built anything, that allows you to teleport the player a couple tiles off the island?
Solves all issues without changing anything regarding map generation.

[vtx]

Meh, there is a solution that could be implemented. My point is rather than bandaging the problem with an auto reload or landfill or whatever, if you're going to fix it then fix it. But I still don't think it's something to be particularly worried about.

Your statement are paradoxical.

We offer exactly "bandaid" solution that are easy because there is no need for dev to use alot of time to that particular issue. The problem is not the map generator as it's the first phase when starting a new game. The problem occur on second phase when we are placed on the map.

/stuck command is another good alternative.

[geeyummy]

This is where Boats would come in handy. I posted on a subject about boats earlier this month.

The first suggestions about boats or mod concepts with boats have been made about 3 years ago (before 0.10.0)

Has there been a suggestion for an island map? small islands where you need boats to ferry resources across to smaller factories O:

[ssilk]

Quite interesting ideas.

For completeness I throw in viewtopic.php?f=80&t=14024 Travel over Water: Boats, Ships, Canus / Bridges / Tunnels