Development and Discussion

[Airat9000]

2 bug

[Northgate]

Hmm an idea would be to have another catalyst from crystal seedlings and use that for single ore recipes.

I am generally not a big fan of the whole catalyst thing because they force you to build the petrochem stuff next to the refining, but I like the crystal seedlings idea to make single ores.

[Arch666Angel]

2 bug

delete the crop cache

[Airat9000]

2 bug

delete the crop cache

thanks! old post bug in 1bug

[Zyrconia]

Since I'm on it, I will also do some changes:
-nerf yellow waste water output a bit (half)

Good! I'm flare stacking sulphuric acid right now. Not very environmentally friendly .

[kinnom]

Could we have some early early looks at the content planned for the 0.15 overhaul? That way I can plan ahead for Petrochem Plus.

[aklesey1]

Changes in angel refining 0.6.2 version? They are not serious? Only fixed bugs?

[Arch666Angel]

Could we have some early early looks at the content planned for the 0.15 overhaul? That way I can plan ahead for Petrochem Plus.

https://github.com/Arch666Angel/angelso ... _0.1.0.zip
https://github.com/Arch666Angel/angelso ... _0.1.1.zip

There is more content in components which is disabled/commented out at the moment.

The mods are basically split into two groups, the ones providing resources (refining, petrochem, bio-processing, smelting) and the ones which contain actual stuff to build (logistics, energy, exploration).
The components mod is the link between both providing tech and building components.

[aklesey1]

Could we have some early early looks at the content planned for the 0.15 overhaul? That way I can plan ahead for Petrochem Plus.

https://github.com/Arch666Angel/angelso ... _0.1.0.zip
https://github.com/Arch666Angel/angelso ... _0.1.1.zip

There is more content in components which is disabled/commented out at the moment.

The mods are basically split into two groups, the ones providing resources (refining, petrochem, bio-processing, smelting) and the ones which contain actual stuff to build (logistics, energy, exploration).
The components mod is the link between both providing tech and building components.

I'm impressed, all new stuff is very cool, and ur own loader, and graphics for them - looks awesome

[Light]

Two balance suggestions have come up given the latest additions.

1. Early game Geode Processing rates are very high, rendering the lengthy mid-late game seedling method almost pointless.
2. Using Brown Algae, only 10 saline creates 200 MJ! This renders all other fuel sources entirely obsolete.

While I love the idea of brown algae as an alternate fuel source, it's extremely easy to create in the very early game to fuel many boilers with a tiny setup. Needs a big nerf to keep more expensive fuel sources appealing again.

I also applaud the early game cargo robot for being absolutely adorable, and the trains for being really sleek to look at. They should look amazing on the HD rails when they come out.

[Arch666Angel]

Two balance suggestions have come up given the latest additions.

1. Early game Geode Processing rates are very high, rendering the lengthy mid-late game seedling method almost pointless.
2. Using Brown Algae, only 10 saline creates 200 MJ! This renders all other fuel sources entirely obsolete.

While I love the idea of brown algae as an alternate fuel source, it's extremely easy to create in the very early game to fuel many boilers with a tiny setup. Needs a big nerf to keep more expensive fuel sources appealing again.

I also applaud the early game cargo robot for being absolutely adorable, and the trains for being really sleek to look at. They should look amazing on the HD rails when they come out.

The alginic acid shouldnt have a fuel value, my fault. will remove it with the next update, BUT probably add a fuel value to alien artifacts.

Could increse the amount of geodes you need to have the recipe run once.

And thanks hope they work as I intend them too even with other people messing around

[Light]

Two balance suggestions have come up given the latest additions.

1. Early game Geode Processing rates are very high, rendering the lengthy mid-late game seedling method almost pointless.
2. Using Brown Algae, only 10 saline creates 200 MJ! This renders all other fuel sources entirely obsolete.

While I love the idea of brown algae as an alternate fuel source, it's extremely easy to create in the very early game to fuel many boilers with a tiny setup. Needs a big nerf to keep more expensive fuel sources appealing again.

I also applaud the early game cargo robot for being absolutely adorable, and the trains for being really sleek to look at. They should look amazing on the HD rails when they come out.

The alginic acid shouldnt have a fuel value, my fault. will remove it with the next update, BUT probably add a fuel value to alien artifacts.

Could increse the amount of geodes you need to have the recipe run once.

And thanks hope they work as I intend them too even with other people messing around

A funny mistake but a bit unfortunate, as I did like the idea of alternate fuel sources early game besides wood and coal given their importance and value as a resource in almost everything. Especially since saline (and mineral water) isn't really used early game and must be voided or stored for later. Plus I also love the idea of organic fuels, it's a cool concept.

Given we have bio-labs to create artifacts, I could see myself actually using the setup I created previously, especially if the colored artifacts receive a higher fuel value given they become obsolete so quickly once their limited research is done, plus their general rarity and expense.

[Psawhn]

I hope you don't mind I replied here because it's less about bugs in the current version and more about discussion of the direction of the mod.

Ahh, so it's intended that solid fuel is much more expensive than vanilla. Out of curiosity, why? It does feel very expensive compared to vanilla, and with its absence there's no way to convert petroleum to fuel without using coke as a seed. (And the only pure liquids -> coke recipe I can find is cracking it out of gas condensates + thermal water -- otherwise we're using coal as a seed for solid fuel.) It feels unintuitive because the world runs on oil + gas as fuel, so I feel like there should be a way to turn liquid oil into fuel in-game without piggybacking off of solid carbon first.

Well, I say "no way." You should take a look at the added bob's liquid fuel canisters. 5 Liquid fuel + 1 Empty Canister -> 1 Liquid fuel canister (150 MJ), unlocked by Barrelling. The recipe to convert 1 Fuel Oil to 1 Liquid Fuel is still in, so its energy yield is more than 10 times the conversion to solid fuel using coke.

You dont need the solid fuel anymore for the rocket fuel, since it is build from the rocket fuel chain. If you compare it with vanilla, solid fuel makes coal more or less useless in the endgame, you usually have tons of it hardly using anything specially after the transition to solar. So you want uses for both of them, also you get far more oil/gas with petrochem compared to the vanilla game, even more so if you use the wood to methanol recipes from bio-processing and/or do additional coal cracking.
And you are right, I should probably do some adjustments to that recipe or remove it.

Ahh, that makes plenty sense. I should point out, though, that I'm not using bio-processing or smelting as I get the impression from the stickies that they aren't quite finished or polished yet. I also get the impression that bio-processing adds quite a few shortcuts through the processing chains and makes methanol production much easier. So I can't comment on balance regarding bioprocessing.

I apologize in advance for the incoming wall of text in defense of some kind of petroleum->fuel equivalent without coal.

To start with, I feel like a hard requirement of coal for petroleum based fuel goes against the spirit of petrochem, which you've said to be about increasing options at the cost of logistical complexity while keeping heavy inspiration from real life. So along with that philosophy I'd really like to be able to choose how dependant I am on coal for fuel.

There are plenty of advantages to coal already. With your refining mod it's the only resource in the game that you can use with no processing of any sort -- just dig it out of the ground and stick it in smelters, boilers, or car engines for fuel. (Even wood requires some kind of algae/greenhouse setup to automate versus chopping by hand). One also can't completely cut ties without a massive logistical complication, as the carbon dioxide/solid carbon chain is very simple to use coal as the root and much more complicated using a petrochem process. (And, coming in 0.15, grenades are used for military science packs and explicitly require coal).

For power, I do think coal is still competitive with solar, as solar requires massive dedications of space for the panels and sulfuric acid for the batteries. (So, funnily enough, nerfing sulfuric waste water production indirectly helps make coal more viable for power generation). In vanilla, coal is simpler and more efficient to use over solid fuel or rocket fuel, until perhaps full beacon/productivity module setups start violating the laws of physics when making rocket fuel. But even if coal is disfavored for mid- to late-game energy production, that's also a reflection of real life. Coal is falling out of use all over the world and introducing some very serious economic and political consequences as a result.

I've previously mentioned that the lack of some kind of gasoline/kerosene equivalent for fuel is conspicuous in its absence, and counter-intuitive compared to the importance of petroleum fuels in real life.

Finally, your Petrochem mod already gives plenty of opportunities to complement the refining chain with coal cracking, which provides an incentive to have coal available in some form or another.

I'd be more than happy if the solid fuel production that involved coke was more efficient in one or more ways to an only-liquids -> fuel process. Inefficiencies could include a slightly higher cost of petroleum per megajoule or presence of byproducts. I think that would be a really good tradeoff that keeps with the spirit of your mods and provides an interesting choice for players. For example I can see a [13 Fuel Oil -> 1 Solid Fuel + Byproducts] recipe as competitive, given the added hassle of dealing with the byproducts and loss of efficiency of MJ per fuel oil in trade for the freedom from needing coal.

(Also, deviously, would changing the recipe be able to affect players who still have the vanilla petroleum->solidfuel recipes either via a mod or an older save file? I still have the vanilla recipe in my current savefile because it was already researched, but I did verify that it is properly removed from a new world.)

[MainTango]

Hi!

So, I've just crafted myself that new Crawler construction vehicle of yours. I have to say, the model is gorgeous.
However, those 3500 HP and a bunch of damage resistances on top of that seem a bit absurd if you don't mind me saying this. Apologies if it is inappropriate to take a vehicle from another mod as a reference, but there's Bob's Mk2 tank which has only 2500 HP, and that's a tank (the vanilla or Mk1 comes with only 1000HP). I guess the Crawler's huge appetite for fuel is supposed balance that if I'm not mistaken? I've changed the HP to 800 in the lua file to see how that works out for me.
Also, since it is pretty much a warehouse on wheels with its massive trunk size, what would you think about making the vehicle model bigger, like twice the size? Let me add that while I'm making this suggestion, I have no idea how much of an effort it takes to render these sprites in the right resolution and put them into the mod - please forgive my ignorance.

I haven't tried the new trains yet, but I'm looking forward to doing it soon.
And finally, hats off to you for all your work. I'm a big fan of your stuff.

[Airat9000]

Two balance suggestions have come up given the latest additions.

1. Early game Geode Processing rates are very high, rendering the lengthy mid-late game seedling method almost pointless.
2. Using Brown Algae, only 10 saline creates 200 MJ! This renders all other fuel sources entirely obsolete.

While I love the idea of brown algae as an alternate fuel source, it's extremely easy to create in the very early game to fuel many boilers with a tiny setup. Needs a big nerf to keep more expensive fuel sources appealing again.

I also applaud the early game cargo robot for being absolutely adorable, and the trains for being really sleek to look at. They should look amazing on the HD rails when they come out.

The alginic acid shouldnt have a fuel value, my fault. will remove it with the next update, BUT probably add a fuel value to alien artifacts.

Could increse the amount of geodes you need to have the recipe run once.

And thanks hope they work as I intend them too even with other people messing around

Please add recipe in Stone --> crushed stone - i am not find recipe

[kinnom]

Two balance suggestions have come up given the latest additions.

1. Early game Geode Processing rates are very high, rendering the lengthy mid-late game seedling method almost pointless.
2. Using Brown Algae, only 10 saline creates 200 MJ! This renders all other fuel sources entirely obsolete.

While I love the idea of brown algae as an alternate fuel source, it's extremely easy to create in the very early game to fuel many boilers with a tiny setup. Needs a big nerf to keep more expensive fuel sources appealing again.

I also applaud the early game cargo robot for being absolutely adorable, and the trains for being really sleek to look at. They should look amazing on the HD rails when they come out.

The alginic acid shouldnt have a fuel value, my fault. will remove it with the next update, BUT probably add a fuel value to alien artifacts.

Could increse the amount of geodes you need to have the recipe run once.

And thanks hope they work as I intend them too even with other people messing around

Please add recipe in Stone --> crushed stone - i am not find recipe

bio industries adds a recipe

[Airat9000]

Update mod Refining 0.6.4 "bobs" resources, and other mods lost in map!!! ((

Other Mods!
Petrochem 0.4.1
angelsinfiniteores_0.5.2

only you resources

please code in back bobs and other resources and you

[aklesey1]

Yes bio instries mod is very useful to mass production of coal
I am confused only that this project has its own version of cellulose, as if to us to make friends them together? With angel bio processing

[aklesey1]

Any news about destiny of angel's smelting mod? i like this useful mod so much

[Zyrconia]

Any news about destiny of angel's smelting mod? i like this useful mod so much

I like it too but this is the first time I've seen it described as useful .

Started a new map and this time, as soon as I get my first Jiv train going, I'll use Smelting exclusively from the start of the game. The whole smelting setup will be mega base sized.

BTW, Arch666Angel:
I'm using add-laoder (https://mods.factorio.com/mods/kij336/add-loader) and your new Logistic mod. Do these work together well? It looks like both are doing the same thing and add-loader is not needed with your mod?

And do I still need https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Optera/LoaderSpeedPatch

Did you touch the speeds of your loaders?

Thanks!