Development and Discussion

[orzelek]

I expected to see a lot of productivity gains from the more elaborate process. But either my testing and math is off or it is a bit underwhelming at some 125%-ish improvements or so (tested for the titanium process). Its a very cool set of machinery though. Has anyone done a proper calculations of gains vs. the traditional process?

You will gain productivity, however I find that it's not worth it in the early game because it uses too much energy. The energy consumption is pretty massive if you aim for a similar output gain like in the simpler setup.
Right now I'm only smelting iron, copper and silicon and a large portion of my power supply is consumed by the smelting buildings.

Yeah in terms of balance it might be a bit off.
Amount of energy required to get gains on resource amounts is really big. Lots of machines to get through process - I went till liquid stage and it was a big installation that barely sustained iron ore for basic red/green research. I think that net gains were calculated somewhere here - I don't recall the total gain and it varies a bit by resource.

[Shenpen]

I must have derped something in my test the first time arround. I did a tests in a more controlled environment and the numbers were quite a bit better. For 1000 pieces of titanium ore given to each process (Angels Smelting and Bobs Mods Electrolysis) I get :


1876 to 1000, Angels vs. Bobs. So a hefty 188 % gain in productivity. More like what I had expected and quite an improvement. This is with using the pellet process.

[ukezi]

as I worked out hier it is 1.5 for tungsten,Copper, Gold, Nickel, Silver, Zinc and lead, 2.25 for aluminum and 1.875 for everything else.

[SHiRKiT]

I expected to see a lot of productivity gains from the more elaborate process. But either my testing and math is off or it is a bit underwhelming at some 125%-ish improvements or so (tested for the titanium process). Its a very cool set of machinery though. Has anyone done a proper calculations of gains vs. the traditional process?

No, you got your math wrong. Normally you get what you input, that means ore 1:1 plate. With the fully developed Angel's smelting, you get the following:

For IRON, TIN, TITANIUM, STEEL, you get this:
- 4 ore -> 1 cart = 0.25 cart/ore
- 2 cart -> 12 pellet = 1.5 pellet/ore
- 4 pellet -> 5 ingot = 1.875 ingot/ore
- 3 ingot -> 3 molten = 1.875 molten/ore
- 2 molten -> 2 plate = 1.875 plate/ore

COPPER, SILVER, LEAD, ALUMINUM, GOLD, NICKEL, TUNGSTEN you get this:
- 4 ore -> 1 cart = 0.25 cart/ore
- 2 cart -> 12 pellet = 1.5 pellet/ore
- 5 pellet -> 5 ingot = 1.5 ingot/ore
- 3 ingot -> 3 molten = 1.5 molten/ore
- 2 molten -> 2 plate = 1.5 plate/ore

And SILICON is the best:
- 4 ore -> 1 cart = 0.25 cart/ore
- 2 cart -> 12 pellet = 1.5 pellet/ore
- 4 pellet -> 6 ingot = 2.25 ingot/ore
- 3 ingot -> 3 molten = 2.25 molten/ore
- 2 molten -> 2 plate = 2.25 plate/ore

Although I do not know why Angel's prefered that the Pellet proccess should be useless for most ores. Me, personally, I think that each step should have a small increment, leading towards the 1.5 or 1.875 profitability.

[Shenpen]

No, you got your math wrong....

Yeah, I must have derped something in the first test. Todays result of 1876 is not too far off though.

And thx! This is just the data I was looking for!

[JoeWhizer]

Hey Angel, all -

just a bit off-topic maybe, but I'm wondering if you consider to translate the mod to German?

Tbh I've already translated the smaller ones (Silo, bio and infinite). Working on Petrochem now and realized that it would be some hours maybe to translate the other addons. Therefore I just wanted to doublecheck if there is already something done or planned, otherwise I would be happy to help here if required and translate everything in the next week or so.

Thanks,
Joe

[Arch666Angel]

Would you consider an option in mod that would do something like the Resized Buildings mod?
It reduces some of the huge buildings to a bit more reasonable size.

Current space requirements for Angels are extreme atm and that would help a bit.

No sry because they are intended to be big, so you get the feeling that your factory is a big sprawling Monstrum of heavy industry. but there is a mod that reduces building sizes for my mods to a minimum so it's only a matter of keeping that up to date.

New ideas for new raw resources which we can refine in refining mod
For now we have:
1) Saphirite
2) Stiratite
3) Rubyte
4) Bobmonium
5) Jivolite
6) Crotinnium

So how about 2 new alien ores? Very rare raw ores, more rare then jivolite and crotinnium for rare resources like chrome, platinum, gallium, beryllium, germaium and manganese:
1) Kassarvol
2) Gleedrine
The names of this ores

names of these ores are invented incidentally and don't bear any semantic loading, my native language not English, names of these ores are thought up so that they were interesting to be said that they had the original name

There will be no new resources on the ground, if I add new intermediate metal ores they will come from the way of refining and sorting. Rare earth and some other things are planned to be gained through processing water/mud-water/mud similar to what yuoki does in his mods. One of the reasons why I moved water treatment to it's own tab.
Aside from that there might be some super rare stuff, but that's an idea which needs a flashed out and working exploration mod which I can only do with the help of the holy code monks.

No, you got your math wrong....

Yeah, I must have derped something in the first test. Todays result of 1876 is not too far off though.

And thx! This is just the data I was looking for!

Dont get to serious over the smelting mod, as I have said it isnt done and not near to what I imagined it to be. Also there have been some tweaks to the values and numbers as a reaction to feedback and I can only apologize if you run into dead ends (cobalt) or if the numbers dont add up as they should be.

I'm still not 100% sure on how to progress because it is very tempting to bundle all non resource related mods into one big pack instead of making them modular.

[Arch666Angel]

Hey Angel, all -

just a bit off-topic maybe, but I'm wondering if you consider to translate the mod to German?

Tbh I've already translated the smaller ones (Silo, bio and infinite). Working on Petrochem now and realized that it would be some hours maybe to translate the other addons. Therefore I just wanted to doublecheck if there is already something done or planned, otherwise I would be happy to help here if required and translate everything in the next week or so.

Thanks,
Joe

I'm german but I havent done any translations for the mod into german, because most of the time I play with the game set to english. So if you want to contribute a translation I appreciate the effort and will include it in the mods.

[Shenpen]

as I worked out hier it is 1.5 for tungsten,Copper, Gold, Nickel, Silver, Zinc and lead, 2.25 for aluminum and 1.875 for everything else.

This might have been what confused me a bit. I started with a setup for smelting aluminnium through the blast furnances and saw great improvements in productivity. I didnt do any real testing, just got that nice feeling of "more" when seeing the setup in action. Tungsten as it turns out dont see the same level of improvement and this was my next choosen item for the process. And I wanted more tungsten sooooo badly...

[ukezi]

then use the productivity modules in bob's process. I think you can get with prod. 8 up to 100 plates/ore.

[jo2k]

I think you can get with prod. 8 up to 100 plates/ore.

167.42 tungsten plates per ore if you use 6 prod level 8 modules (+240%) in chem-plant 4 and electric-mpp-furnace 2. Wow.

It's a bit overpowered...

[mexmer]

I think you can get with prod. 8 up to 100 plates/ore.

167.42 tungsten plates per ore if you use 6 prod level 8 modules (+240%) in chem-plant 4 and electric-mpp-furnace 2. Wow.

It's a bit overpowered...

preocution modules (from bob's) are OP in general (especially if we talking raw productivity ones). considering how much level 8 gives, although they not cheap to create and reaching all way to level 8 is rather lategame stuff.
that's why by default production modules are disabled in angels (unless you install toggle mod)

[aklesey1]

Arch666angel when we can await new serious update for smelting mod with sintering oven?
May we can await some new alloys?
Whether we should await some changes in electronics system, I know that you like to study many details to trifles, ur mods are really amazing? but just look at this overhaul mod and his electronics system, its reeeeeeeeaaaalllly cool viewtopic.php?f=95&t=38927

[SHiRKiT]

Dont get to serious over the smelting mod, as I have said it isnt done and not near to what I imagined it to be. Also there have been some tweaks to the values and numbers as a reaction to feedback and I can only apologize if you run into dead ends (cobalt) or if the numbers dont add up as they should be.

I'm still not 100% sure on how to progress because it is very tempting to bundle all non resource related mods into one big pack instead of making them modular.

Sorry, I didn't want to sound picky, I just love your mods, and despiste the Smelting Mod making like 50% sense, I still loved the challange of doing it for the sake of doing it. Now I FINALLY have an actual purpose for a Mega Base, instead of it being big just for the sake of being big. I actually denied myself any other type of smelting (besides cobalt of course xD) if not through the Angel's Smelting.

I had a few ideas on how you could improve it a bit if you want, but I'm also not 100% sure on them either. I'm 150 hours into the map but still it's not what I wanted it to be. Probably when I'm 300 hours in I can give you some feedback on my experience.

[JoeWhizer]

I'm german but I havent done any translations for the mod into german, because most of the time I play with the game set to english. So if you want to contribute a translation I appreciate the effort and will include it in the mods.

Thanks, appreciate to help. Worked on that yesterday and the translation is done. Unfortunately I am not able to send PMs yet, so please let me know how I can send the file to you. Not quite sure if it is allowed to drop an external link here in the forum.

It's only a 18kb zip file including only the text-files for translation.

Happy New Year!

Cheers,
Joe

[daniel34]

Thanks, appreciate to help. Worked on that yesterday and the translation is done. Unfortunately I am not able to send PMs yet, so please let me know how I can send the file to you. Not quite sure if it is allowed to drop an external link here in the forum.

External links are allowed to a certain extent (no spam, ...), you can also use the 'Upload attachment' function to attach the file directly to your post. You are able to send PMs after your third post.

[JoeWhizer]

Excellent, thank you Daniel!

@Angel: I have now attached the file here, let me know what you think. Also added a comment.txt with some minor corrections I did in the english texts.

Thanks,
Joe

[Arch666Angel]

Excellent, thank you Daniel!

@Angel: I have now attached the file here, let me know what you think. Also added a comment.txt with some minor corrections I did in the english texts.

Thanks,
Joe

Thanks a lot, I will take a look and add them when I'm back home in a couple days

[StormTAG]

Just occurred to me that there is no recipe to get regular Bob mod style "resin" out of the Bio Industries while there is recipes for paste, plastics, etc.

What would a recipe like that look like? Would going cellulose fiber to resin directly make sense? Mix in some kind of gas? Be able to convert paste to resin and back again?

[ukezi]

you can make resin out of urea(amonia +CO2) and formaldehyde. there you have your bio-resin.
@angel I think your rubber recipe is to complex and costly because you can make rubber by burning resin.