Development and Discussion

[pyanodon]

Hey, for what we will meed salt??

[mexmer]

Hey, for what we will meed salt??

we have already some salts ingame, although they mostly byproducts.

salt is not only NaCl

[hoho]

A tiny nitpick - it should actually be called de-salination plant. Salination would be *adding* salt to something. You're taking salt out

[mexmer]

A tiny nitpick - it should actually be called de-salination plant. Salination would be *adding* salt to something. You're taking salt out

good point

[Rue99]

As you're clearly in a modelling mood, can we have a new T3 Hydro plant that takes up 2x2 spaces, thank'ee kindly . I agree that the new desalination plant looks sweeter.

[Zyrconia]

I really can't find anything from bio processing in the game. I tried to search for bio, farm, algae and nothing turns up...

https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Arch666A ... processing

Thanks, but I checked multiple times to see if I have the mod, if it is up to date and activated.

Also looked inside the zip at the entries to see their name so I could use them in game search function for them. No luck.

I really can't find anything from bio processing in the game. I tried to search for bio, farm, algae and nothing turns up...

If you added it to an existing save you might have to reset recipes and technologies by hand.

That might be it. Thank you! Is there a way to do this without having to enter console commands? My save is a "legit" one. Need to learn to mod so I can add a keyboard shortcut for this.

trainbig2.png

Wow! Do you model everything yourself?

Also dont forget that bio-processing is dependent on refining and petrochems.

Nope, it was [Z] Group Change. And maybe adding bio processing late game, because I still can't fix my main save.

But with ZGC disabled or configured to not hide bio-processing (it hides it by default, even the science), bio processing should work for new saves.

If you added it to an existing save you might have to reset recipes and technologies by hand.

How do you do that?

[aklesey1]

Wasnt happy with the salination plant, remade it:

This will be a part of new processing mod?

[Zyrconia]

Just a small bug I found: after researching bio processing, you can no longer hand craft basic electric poles. It will complain that you do not have enough ingredients because the wood recipe will now try to use the bio-processing products.

You need to craft raw wood into wood into your inventory and then you can craft the poles out of the wood you have on hand.

[aklesey1]

Just a small bug I found: after researching bio processing, you can no longer hand craft basic electric poles. It will complain that you do not have enough ingredients because the wood recipe will now try to use the bio-processing products.

You need to craft raw wood into wood into your inventory and then you can craft the poles out of the wood you have on hand.

There simple wood and synthetic wood if u are playing with CMH mod, so there some conflict is exists not terribly it can be endured

[Rensiur]

This is actually a Bob Mod Thingy I take, not related directly to Angels M
Anyways, this is related to two reciepes for wood board being present, and the game can not differentiatiate that you can make one with ingredients in your inventory, and the other one is only doable in an assembler type machine. This leads to the scenario that you need to make the wooden boards by hand. As far as I read it from the bobs mods forum section there is no viable workaround there to prevent this.

[mexmer]

it's not problem of bob mod per se, it's problem of how game recipes are prioritized.

[Zyrconia]

Guaranteed not a Bob's thing. I have 60-80 hours with Bob's + Angels Refining + Petrochem and more just with Bob's.

I only saw the problem on m latest map (I'm 5 hours in), where I:
- finally managed to get Bio processing to work (Z Group Change disables it; adding it mid game doesn't work).
- added angel's smelting

So it is either angel's smelting or angel's bio processing and my bet is on processing. Or, I did disable all the ZGroup Change fixes and maybe this was one of the fixes.

[mexmer]

Guaranteed not a Bob's thing. I have 60-80 hours with Bob's + Angels Refining + Petrochem and more just with Bob's.

I only saw the problem on m latest map (I'm 5 hours in), where I:
- finally managed to get Bio processing to work (Z Group Change disables it; adding it mid game doesn't work).
- added angel's smelting

So it is either angel's smelting or angel's bio processing and my bet is on processing. Or, I did disable all the ZGroup Change fixes and maybe this was one of the fixes.

nope it's not problem of either. it's how game handles multiple recipes for same item.

simply said, game prioritizes "newest" recipe, and you can't change it.
so if "newest" recipe for item is only craftable in factory (assembly, chemical plant, whatever), you will not be able to autocraft by hand.
you still can manually select that hancraftable recipe and craft by hand.
derivate products (which will need it) when hand crafted will always try to use "newest" recipe, if there is not enough items in inventory.

it's long standing issue in game mechanics.

only option for mod authors is not to make any recipe for handcrafted item, that is not handcraftable, but then something will be lost

[Arch666Angel]

Guaranteed not a Bob's thing. I have 60-80 hours with Bob's + Angels Refining + Petrochem and more just with Bob's.

I only saw the problem on m latest map (I'm 5 hours in), where I:
- finally managed to get Bio processing to work (Z Group Change disables it; adding it mid game doesn't work).
- added angel's smelting

So it is either angel's smelting or angel's bio processing and my bet is on processing. Or, I did disable all the ZGroup Change fixes and maybe this was one of the fixes.

I dont have any influence with Zgroup, I dont understand why hte author mixes balancing changes with the group updates, maybe just the mods name needs a change to clarify that it is more of a rebalance.

The issue with the wood boards is as the other have elaborated, this is a game issue and the only way to prevent this might be to make the recipes not handcraft able which would end in the same result: You either have to manually craft the boards or automate their production.

[mexmer]

actually i think, it can be fixed (by dev), when you try to hancraft something, it will iterate trough recipes with same result, if there is not "handcraft" recipe. but guess this has low priority, since this issue is ingame like forever (at least when i started playing - which was 12.something - it was already present)

[steinio]

This attempt should also work with Angel's: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=32503#p229721

[Zyrconia]

Playing the game with all of Angel's mods is definitely something else! It is like an never-ending stream of things to do, bottlenecks and throughput issues to solve. If you have mastered the base game and it no longer presents a logistical challenge for you, these mods + Bob's is the way to go.

I spent yesterday like 4 hours tying to set up oil on a new map. PetroChem can be relatively easy if you only take what you need and overflow valve + pressure tank + water void the rest. That is easy mode. Normally I don't do that, I do minimum by-product handling and use pressure tanks to handle the extra stuff. The mid solution.

But this time I went with a full solution and created a monstrosity that uses both oil and gas vents and tries to take care of each product. And the whole thing barely manages to feed two plastic plants. To my surprise you don't need much oil: the gas vents do a far better job of fueling your plastic needs.

But at least it is stable. It oscillates a bit, having ups and downs, but it will go until forever, or until my purified water (I have an over production, probably this is the only good place for a water void) and ACL tanks fills up. I still don't know what to do with ACL.

I also did a lot of play testing and took notes related to ore sorting, with numbers and all.

My conclusion is that your mods are actually very well balanced. But they offer so much choice and the choice is often between a high throughput solution and a low throughput solution. If you choose "wrong", you may end up thinking that the mods are poorly balanced and you need an insane amount of production buildings to get any decent throughput.

I'll give two examples. First, the one I mentioned this post: if you try to feed plastic solely by oil gathering though pump jacks, you will get a huge separation and refining setup that produces far to little gas so your propene will be starved and in consequence you'll have low plastic throughput. And you will produce and astronomic amount of crude oil you have nothing to do with. Last game I had 10 full pressure tanks. The better solution is to have just enough oil processing to handle your oil needs and get the propene from gas vents. This is a better balanced solution, but it still doesn't produce enough plastic. The solution is not to increase your setup, but to process Naphtha.

The second example is refining: if you create a main setup using single input ore sorting, you will have bad throughput. The solution is to use only 2 (+brown catalyst) input ore sorting for high need ores and have a minimal setup of single ore sorting that produces a wide range of ores you don't need that much of. You need to figure out that you will never be able to keep up with iron using hydro refining, not even with tin and lead, but you will be able to keep up with quartz and zinc.

So there are a lot of choices and while some are clearly a lot worse than the others with regards to throughput, I think this is intentional. I don't think Angel's mods were designed to have one solution that is simply good and you use that single solution uniformly to handle everything from iron to uranium. It is up to you to balance your throughput needs with the complexity of the setup and you often need two different setups that will have some overlap in their outputs and you will need to merge those common outputs together and make sure that one does not back up and block the other.

So in concussion your mods are balanced. Except for Smelting. Smelting produces huge setups with low throughput and the only advantage is that you get the ore to plate bonus. Which is nice to have in theory, but in practice you will never feed 2 or more blue belts with Smelting. Again, it might be of use for low need ores. I keep one on lead and one on tin just for fun.

[aklesey1]

Hey, for what we will meed salt??

Yes yes for what we can use new salt? in bioprocesing 0.2.1, for now it can be used anywhere? this must overwrite the salt from bob mods i think

[Durabys]

Question to Arch666Angel: Why is there not also a Basic Stone Furnace Angel's Smelting Mod's re-texture?

[Rue99]

Hey, for what we will meed salt??

Yes yes for what we can use new salt? in bioprocesing 0.2.1, for now it can be used anywhere? this must overwrite the salt from bob mods i think

Unsurprisingly, it's used to make Chlorine and Sodium Hydroxide.