Add support for train stations (groups of train stops)

[factoriouzr]

Add an entity that can be placed anywhere called a "train station". This could be something as simple as a sign (kind of like a power pole). Also allow setting a name on the "train station".

Then allow linking any number of train stops via red or green wire to the "train station". What this will do is hide all the train stops from being visible in any gui (eg train schedule editing) and simplify the interface greatly.

Now, stay with me, I will get to how this will be extremely useful. For now though, I need to explain another feature that we need.

We also need the ability to create "labels" and assign 0 to many labels to each train. Labels could include things like "player access", "loading", "unloading", etc. Now these labels, should match the names of the train stops linked to the "train station" mentioned above.

Now you tell a train to go to a "train station" and if it's labeled with a "label" that matches a train stop in that station, it will go to that stop.

Imagine this setup:

You have the following "train station" outposts:
"Oil 1", "Oil 2", "Iron 1", "Copper 1"

Each of these outposts has the following train stops and they are all liked via red wire to the "train station":
"Loading", "Player Access", "Supply"

The loading is where the resource is loaded onto the resource train. The player access is for the player taking their personal train to that outpost whenever they want. The supply is for the supply train that brings walls, turrets, power poles etc to the outpost. ie. whatever you need at the outpost.

Now at you main base (where your unloading area and supply loading area is), you have all the train stops below, all linked to a "train station" with the name "main base":
"Iron Unloading", "Oil Unloading", "Copper Unloading", "Supply Loading"

Now you have your supply train with the following labels:
"Supply Loading", "Supply"
It's set, in it's schedule to go to "main base", "Oil 1", "Oil 2", "Iron 1", and "Copper 1"

You have your iron train with the following labels:
"Iron Unloading", "Loading"
It is going to "train station" "Iron 1"

Now what happens is that your trains know what "train stations" to go to and pick their train stops in that station by the labels they have assigned to them and match them up to the train stops at that station.

I hope I explained that well.

The benefits of this approach:

1) It drastically reduces the clutter in the number of train stops that show up in every train GUI. The number of train stops quickly gets out of hand in the current game. Imagine having a loading, supply, and player access station at every outpost. If you have 3 outposts for iron, oil and copper each then that's already 27 train stops that you have to scroll through in every train GUI. This is also a very simple example. If you add more stops at each outpost, like 2 player access stations (if you are playing in multiplayer), another 1 or 2 supply trains, then you add more outposts for other resources like coal, and stone, you are easily over 100 train stops in every GUI.

2) It allows for easy blueprinting of outposts (even easier if the feature to store train stop names in blueprints is added). This is achieved by making each train stop at an outpost match the name exactly of all other outposts. Eg. every outpost will have a train stop called "loading", "player access", "supply" etc. You don't have to remember every time, which outpost you are at, eg "iron 1" and name each stop "iron 1 loading", "iron 1 player access", "iron 1 supply" etc.

3) It allows for a logical grouping of train stops that you want grouped anyway. This will allow more intelligence in train navigation. You say I want to go to "iron 1" and because of the train labels and outpost train stop names, the train knows exactly where to go.

4) Allows for reuse of trains and outposts. Once you assign labels to trains as I explained above, unless you re-purpose the train, you will never have to change its' labels when adding new outposts and you just add the train station as a target and the train will just work. Outposts will also not require custom train stop names (especially good when the train stop names are stored in blueprints). You plop down a blueprint of an outpost and you change the train station name, and you are done. It's fully functional outpost. Whereas now, you plop down the blueprint and have to change like 5 train stop names, each and every one of them custom (of course this depends on how many stops you have at the outpost).

[Lemlin]

You don´t have to scroll through several trains station labels, use the search box.

[BenSeidel]

Cool, I like the idea, maybe not quite the implementation. Seriously helps with the whole "copper 1", "copper 2" etc.

Have you seen the suggestion for the train way-points?
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21831
I think that they both have similar outcomes, but different imlpementations. Either way, maybe a GUI implementation could be done instead of the wiring? The wiring could become an issue if your stops are non-trivial distances away from each other. Also, how would you resolve the conflicts when two "train station" are connected to a train stop?

Anyway, interesting perspective on the issue.

[factoriouzr]

Cool, I like the idea, maybe not quite the implementation. Seriously helps with the whole "copper 1", "copper 2" etc.

Have you seen the suggestion for the train way-points?
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21831
I think that they both have similar outcomes, but different imlpementations. Either way, maybe a GUI implementation could be done instead of the wiring? The wiring could become an issue if your stops are non-trivial distances away from each other. Also, how would you resolve the conflicts when two "train station" are connected to a train stop?

Anyway, interesting perspective on the issue.

I have not seen that suggestion, but I don't see how it's related. My suggestion solves completely different issues then the one suggested.

I only suggested the red wire solution because it's in the base game already. I personally don't like the system that much in general. It has many weaknesses, and distance is one of them.

What I would really like to configure trains is better GUIs, with drag and drop, a dedicated config screen for all routes and schedules, etc.
I would love a button to call a train to you that you want (like shuttle train) and a button to just tell the train to go somewhere instead of opening the GUI all the time.
I would love a way to tell a train to only go to an outpost if it has resources.
I would love a way to tell a train to go back to base and skip it's remaining route if it's full.
I would love a way to double click on stops in a train schedule to enable/disable them so that your supply train for eg. can go back to base and to your newly constructed outpost only for now until it's fully set up.
I would love to be able to copy and paste train stop condition in the train schedule.
etc etc.

I only suggested it this way because it's aligned with how the devs designed factorio now. It's not because I prefer the wire mechanics.

As for your question about " two "train station" are connected to a train stop". The answer is, you would never do this. Think real life. If you go to a train station, all stops in that station are only part of that one train station. What you are asking doesn't make sense. You would never have one stop part of two stations. Game wise, if you try to do this, it wouldn't be allowed and you will get an error message saying why you can't do it.

Thanks for your feedback and complement

[BenSeidel]

I only posted the other thread because you get the same behaviour by having the "passthrough" train stop before each of your outposts/bases train stops. So for example you can have "outpost 6" passthrough stop before each of your outpost's 6's train stops. Pathing will ensure that they are picked because they are closest. When I read your post I instantly thought of the passthrough stop as being a solution to the behaviour you are after.

As for your question about " two "train station" are connected to a train stop". The answer is, you would never do this

Haha, while you would never do this, due to the wiring mechanic it's possible. And if it's possible someone would do it. I was only asking if you had thought about that scenario.

[factoriouzr]

I only posted the other thread because you get the same behaviour by having the "passthrough" train stop before each of your outposts/bases train stops. So for example you can have "outpost 6" passthrough stop before each of your outpost's 6's train stops. Pathing will ensure that they are picked because they are closest. When I read your post I instantly thought of the passthrough stop as being a solution to the behaviour you are after.

As for your question about " two "train station" are connected to a train stop". The answer is, you would never do this

Haha, while you would never do this, due to the wiring mechanic it's possible. And if it's possible someone would do it. I was only asking if you had thought about that scenario.

I see. Not sure how the passthrough is a solution to what I'm suggesting here. It seems to me like my solution achieves a lot more. I can however see how there is a similarity in kind of grouping stops and stations.

As for you train station wiring question, yes someone would do it. It was a good question. I think just the error message and the game preventing you from doing it should be sufficient

I really hope they improve trains and make them smarter soon. Its a good system right now but it leaves a few things to be desired. It has a lot of potential though and it's workable, just not great yet.